jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I can confirm what Jono says. Having had quite a limited shooting time with the camera here in Berlin and thus only few files I can however, confirm his findings - with one small exemption- .
The highlights - blown is blow and that is it. No recovery from the green channel etc.
However, the greytones are extremely defined and subtle, far beyond what film or digital conversions can bring, and the shadow detail seems to go on for ever and ever. We will have to learn to use these files and that will take time. but it will give birth to a different type of black-andwhite photography that branches off from the film tree, as opposed to the convert-and-imitate digital black and white that we are used to now.
I just had a long breakfast talk with Erwin Puts. He has found that in the blown highlights there are still some little histogram spikes left, probably representing individual pixels that blow a bit later than others. Whether these were useful for highlight recovery he could not say. That is probably a matter of luck.
You will all need to read his site on this camera when he publishes his findings, but I can give a sneak preview - they will not be negative by any standard.
I have not spoken to one user-expert here who was not over the moon with this camera and many were writing out cheques on the spot. I would have too, were it not that little birds were twittering even better uses for my photography slush fund in the not too far future. There is a limit to the amount I can steal out of the household expenses...
Late September is not too far away....
The highlights - blown is blow and that is it. No recovery from the green channel etc.
However, the greytones are extremely defined and subtle, far beyond what film or digital conversions can bring, and the shadow detail seems to go on for ever and ever. We will have to learn to use these files and that will take time. but it will give birth to a different type of black-andwhite photography that branches off from the film tree, as opposed to the convert-and-imitate digital black and white that we are used to now.
I just had a long breakfast talk with Erwin Puts. He has found that in the blown highlights there are still some little histogram spikes left, probably representing individual pixels that blow a bit later than others. Whether these were useful for highlight recovery he could not say. That is probably a matter of luck.
You will all need to read his site on this camera when he publishes his findings, but I can give a sneak preview - they will not be negative by any standard.
I have not spoken to one user-expert here who was not over the moon with this camera and many were writing out cheques on the spot. I would have too, were it not that little birds were twittering even better uses for my photography slush fund in the not too far future. There is a limit to the amount I can steal out of the household expenses...
Late September is not too far away....chikne
Well-known
Tadaaaaaaaaaaa
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
Oh Hey Jono
Great to see YOU here on RFf...
Though apologies one has to be put across the coals
Congrats on having the Opportunity to give the 'Mono' a test run
Best to You & Famille
Xo-H
Great to see YOU here on RFf...
Though apologies one has to be put across the coals
Congrats on having the Opportunity to give the 'Mono' a test run
Best to You & Famille
Xo-H
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
dave lackey
Veteran
Jono, thank you for coming on board and discussing this with us! You are one class person to take on the tough crowd that is the internet forum.
It really is a bonding thing with any camera and it seems that you have come across a workflow and, indeed, a completely different animal that will take even more bonding.
Can we hope to have you as a regular on RFF? That would be great if we could!
It really is a bonding thing with any camera and it seems that you have come across a workflow and, indeed, a completely different animal that will take even more bonding.
Can we hope to have you as a regular on RFF? That would be great if we could!
dave lackey
Veteran
I can confirm what Jono says. Having had quite a limited shooting time with the camera here in Berlin and thus only few files I can however, confirm his findings - with one small exemption- .
The highlights - blown is blow and that is it. No recovery from the green channel etc.
However, the greytones are extremely defined and subtle, far beyond what film or digital conversions can bring, and the shadow detail seems to go on for ever and ever. We will have to learn to use these files and that will take time. but it will give birth to a different type of black-andwhite photography that branches off from the film tree, as opposed to the convert-and-imitate digital black and white that we are used to now.
I just had a long breakfast talk with Erwin Puts. He has found that in the blown highlights there are still some little histogram spikes left, probably representing individual pixels that blow a bit later than others. Whether these were useful for highlight recovery he could not say. That is probably a matter of luck.
You will all need to read his site on this camera when he publishes his findings, but I can give a sneak preview - they will not be negative by any standard.
I have not spoken to one user-expert here who was not over the moon with this camera and many were writing out cheques on the spot. I would have too, were it not that little birds were twittering even better uses for my photography slush fund in the not too far future. There is a limit to the amount I can steal out of the household expenses...
Thank you, that is indeed what I suspected and was hoping for...really good news!
All in all, May 10 was very interesting to me and I wonder what your impression was about not only the M9-M but overall....:angel:
jonoslack
Member
Okay Okay
well - thanks Jaap and Dave - however - permission granted - actually, it's given me an idea. . . . . it would, after all, be better if you could fiddle with the DNG rather than with an already processed jpg . . .don't you think?
. . . and thank you Helen and others for the welcome
all the best
Jono
well - thanks Jaap and Dave - however - permission granted - actually, it's given me an idea. . . . . it would, after all, be better if you could fiddle with the DNG rather than with an already processed jpg . . .don't you think?
. . . and thank you Helen and others for the welcome
all the best
Jono
chikne
Well-known
I dunno if it would make much difference, not in my unscientific ways anyway. Having said that I didn't find much difference between your jpeg and the jpegs I get from the fuji x100....
rbelyell
Well-known
to jono
i for one totally agree with your decision to limit PP. i may be alone in this, and thats ok with me, but when judging a new piece of hardware and what it can do, i'm not interested in your skill as a software engineer, or your talent in PP. i'm interested in what the camera does, so i applaud in full the philosophy you employed.
tony
i for one totally agree with your decision to limit PP. i may be alone in this, and thats ok with me, but when judging a new piece of hardware and what it can do, i'm not interested in your skill as a software engineer, or your talent in PP. i'm interested in what the camera does, so i applaud in full the philosophy you employed.
tony
Lss
Well-known
How dare they not customize the camera to your liking even when you didn't yet pay the list price!Maybe not afraid, but if I were to pay $8000 for a B&W digital, I'd expect every single effect in Silver Efex to be thrown in there and presented in an intuitive and easy to tweak manner.
To much to ask?
glenerrolrd
Member
Jono
Well spoken! Bravo for taking the time to craft such an excellent response.
Roger
Well spoken! Bravo for taking the time to craft such an excellent response.
Roger
damien.murphy
Damien
Hmm.. if I was Leica, I would not be letting my elected testers output flat dng files. I am sure as many have noted, that quality results are obtainable with a little massaging in editing, but would have thought high quality finished images are the ones Leica would want people to see first.
I remember when Nikon came out with their 14-24mm f2.8 zoom for full frame Nikon dslr's, them putting one of them into Joe McNally's hands (amongst others) to show what the lens could really do. The image of an indoor ice hockey game, with a puck flying at speed, captured by Nikons new wonder lens from a camera in or behind the goal mouth still sticks in my mind. I can't say the same for some of the Leica images.
Bigger issue though, I imagine, is whether Leica's new b&w M9 offers a sufficient suite of controls in camera to generate top notch files straight from the camera. Its nice to have a quality dng available, but if you can't get an equivalently top notch jpeg from the camera that's good to go, I wonder what the point is..
I remember when Nikon came out with their 14-24mm f2.8 zoom for full frame Nikon dslr's, them putting one of them into Joe McNally's hands (amongst others) to show what the lens could really do. The image of an indoor ice hockey game, with a puck flying at speed, captured by Nikons new wonder lens from a camera in or behind the goal mouth still sticks in my mind. I can't say the same for some of the Leica images.
Bigger issue though, I imagine, is whether Leica's new b&w M9 offers a sufficient suite of controls in camera to generate top notch files straight from the camera. Its nice to have a quality dng available, but if you can't get an equivalently top notch jpeg from the camera that's good to go, I wonder what the point is..
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I've never output a single JPEG from my M9.
I can't say that I would be at all miffed if all the M9M output needed to be processed to achieve best results. After all, I need to process all my B&W film photos too. Have you ever gotten great B&W by snapping a bunch of photos with your M6 and sending it off for prints to a photofinisher?
I can't say that I would be at all miffed if all the M9M output needed to be processed to achieve best results. After all, I need to process all my B&W film photos too. Have you ever gotten great B&W by snapping a bunch of photos with your M6 and sending it off for prints to a photofinisher?
dude163
Member
I actually prefer the original over the re-edit with the heavy contrast
rbelyell
Well-known
i really dont understand this line of thought. i never spent $8000 on a film camera either!
its just like when they came out with the M8. if they just wouldve told people how the darned camera worked--that it rquired IR filters on all your glass--then folks couldve made a rational decision to spend the sum they were asking.
here, in addition to telling everyone about the unsurpassed resolution and incredible high iso ability, tell us also what we need to do to use the camera properly. if OOC yields flat images and if substantial PP is necessary, just say so.. there is a difference between choosing to PP to get a desired effect and being required to PP to obtain a decent image. we should be informed as to which system we are buying.
if youre proud of the product youve put out there and youre demanding a pretty much unprecedented sum of money for it, shouldnpt you want to tell folks what to expect and how to get the most out of it? why do you want disappointment to crop up at all in this kind of purchase? when youre asking people to drop $8000 a little managment of expectations and a little honesty would go a long way.
gilpen123
Gil
Hello Jono welcome here surely a topnotch guy.
armanius
Member
Good morning Jono (or afternoon by now)! I hope you had a decent sleep yesterday after the podcast with Amin. Enjoyed it thoroughly. And thanks for the photos on your site as well as the nice explanation of your experience in your first post at RFF. And pardon those who think nice is a bad thing. Sorry you missed the OMD podcast. It ended up being a "little" longer than we thought it would be - again!
ChrisC
Established
Jono - You handled the reply to your antagonists well. Whilst there are tonal renderings in your posted images I didn't respond well to, there are things I am responding well to in your [and others] explanations of how the files look upon conversion.
Thank you for your post and explanation of the light conditions you shot in, as it helps us understand the files better. Personally, I think your choice of the relatively flat and under produced look to your images is incredibly helpful, because [especially with the added information that the files have very good shadow recovery], it is easier to understand the potential of the files for concerted file-mastering.
Blow a kiss to Cornwall for me --- I miss home.
............... Chris
Thank you for your post and explanation of the light conditions you shot in, as it helps us understand the files better. Personally, I think your choice of the relatively flat and under produced look to your images is incredibly helpful, because [especially with the added information that the files have very good shadow recovery], it is easier to understand the potential of the files for concerted file-mastering.
Blow a kiss to Cornwall for me --- I miss home.
............... Chris
docmoore
Newbie
Hi Jono,
I for one would love the opportunity to play with the DNG...my SE Pro 2 variations at G..... were done on the JPG from the Leica site.
Please PM me there if you can send me a link to a file....
You mentioned High Key...the Gallery Personal and Portrait... has a high key photo as the cover shot that is not seen in the gallery as its marker...one of the best of the group in my opinion.
Would love to print a few of these on the 4900 with bartya and rag....
Bob
gho
Well-known
My impression is that many prefer a contrasty look with dropped shadows. I find your processing quite refreshing. I like soft, beautiful mid-tones and shadow detail.