Araakii
Well-known
The original files look lovely. Flat tone is great as a raw file. My only problem was the quality of the shots themselves. If the photographer didn't have enough time to take the shots, I don't blame him. I just blame Leica for being so lazy when it comes to actual images. They definitely spend a lot more time in the lab and in the marketing room than actually thinking about what images to present as samples.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Where did you find the raw files???
Richard G
Veteran
What a class post from J Slack. Maybe the recent drooling over the tonality of Constantine Manos's photos from the '60s can give way to achieving something similar with the M9M, hopefully not only under a Chinese sky.
jonoslack
Member
Hi There
I'm glad you've posted again - I was wondering if you were simply playing devil's advocate. Nice to know that you had a constructive and serious intent. Nice of you to try and let me off the hook . . . . but.
First thing I must say is that Leica is not responsible for the images on my website in any sense. We have had no artistic discussion, and all the decisions with respect to selection and processing is entirely down to me. They don't represent Leica 'samples' in any sense. Added to which, although the images were all taken from DNG files they have all been processed to a greater or lesser extent.
I've already explained the reasons for the way the images are, and the reasons that I did it that way - but I must insist that this was my decision, and that Leica had no input.
. . . . . . and I'm not going to defend my photography in general either . . . I'm very aware that some find it anodyne, it's never meant to be 'in your face' - but of course, some people like it! . . . . . . however, I really was trying to 'get out of the way' in this instance.
For example, those who know me, would find the embedded image more representative of what I do.
Let the Discussion Continue!
Wide angle Tri-elmar 320 M Monochrom ISO 18mm Walberswick Suffolk
jonoslack
Member
HI everyone.
I'd really like to say thank you to lots of people for posting such nice comments - it's hard to answer everyone, but it is very much appreciated.
all the best
Jonathan
I'd really like to say thank you to lots of people for posting such nice comments - it's hard to answer everyone, but it is very much appreciated.
all the best
Jonathan
dave lackey
Veteran
Beautiful, Jono!:angel: I love this.
I was wondering about the Monochrom and contre-jour photos. Have you had an opportunity to try out a backlit (16:1 or greater) situation, and if so, how did the details hold up in the shadows?
I was wondering about the Monochrom and contre-jour photos. Have you had an opportunity to try out a backlit (16:1 or greater) situation, and if so, how did the details hold up in the shadows?
jonoslack
Member
HI Dave
Thank you.
Unlike the highlights, the shadows go on for ever.
all the best
Jono
__--
Well-known
Jono, now this photograph, for me, shows what may really be of interest in the M9M — shoot me I like that better than "MM". Any chance that you could provide access to the DNG file?
Right now, I see the M9M as more a of a camera for landscape of "the essence of an object" type of photography (say, like Ralph Gibson) than a camera for street photography. In this connection it was interesting that Leica chose Jacob Aue Sobol, whose photography is high contrast and gritty and who has been attacked as being derivative of Anders Petersen and Daido Moriyama — not an aesthetic that I would have thought would necessarily benefit from this camera; and, although I have not yet seen enough of Sobol's Trans-Siberian series shot with the M9M, I have the impression that I like the tonality he gets from film better.
Interesting that the original M9 brochure had high contrast shoots of Cuba, shot mainly in very bright light, with great colour and inevitably a good amount of blown out highlights, many of which would have also been blown out on colour negative film. Brave move by Leica, but it is what moved me to buy the M9 because, in Bangkok, I often shoot in the same harsh light.
—Mitch/Manila
Days and Nights in the Forest (WIP)
urban_alchemist
Well-known
Those in glass houses should not throw stones.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
It's harsh but it is also accurate. These are mundane vacation snaps, many of them poorly processed or misfocused or badly exposed. I don't claim that my own work is better but then I wouldn't expect Leica to give me an M9M prototype, either.
Give the prototype to a really good working photojournalist. Turtle and Emraphoto on this board are two exemplars; and of course there are many others around the world.
Jono's comments are welcome and thoughtful but they do not explain Leica's odd choices for prototype testing.
user237428934
User deletion pending
What for? What photojournalist needs more DR or finer gays? Give that camera to a landscape photographer and fine art printer. That would be interesting.
jonoslack
Member
No - certainly not - but you might give it to someone who's been testing camera firmware since 2002 with Kodak - who has a development background, and also has a passion for photography. Who's willing to take thousands of photographs which he may not be able to use.
The point about testing cameras is just that. It's a different skill from that of a photojournalist
You could say that I shouldn't be posting my poorly processed, misfocused and mundane photographs . . . but that's a different issue!
all the best
Jonathan
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Both would be good options. I'd like to see what Salgado or Nachtwey or Meiselas does with this camera.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
I am aware of that. I've spent significant time over the last 15 years testing CCDs (including some bearing the prefix KAF) for quantitative scientific use. But I am not particularly interested in using 2 days of tourism in China to assess the technical capabilities of this sensor, which are likely to be similar to many Kodak monochrome sensors that I have used over the same period, and are at this point reasonably well-understood by anyone who follows the field closely.
I'm far more interested to see what happens in expressive terms over a range of field conditions when the camera is in the hands of a first-class working photographer.
user237428934
User deletion pending
Are you serious with this question?
135format
Established
is the sensor on this camera sensitive to IR and has anyone tried IR filters on it. I'm asking cos I rekon that seascape might have required less manipuation if IR filters worked with this sensor and IR capabilities are something I'm interested in.
docmoore
Newbie
Pretty amusing and a bit far from the original intent of the post beginning.
I just browsed through my copy of "An Inner Silence The Portraits of Henri Cartier-Bresson" and I wonder how they would fare in this discussion...as at least 40% of them so much poorer focus and processing than those depicted by Jono. Yet they are held in high esteem....even though most were processed back home by a designate.
If these are poor vacation snaps then I hope that I can carry Jono's bags on his next trip. What I see is what the camera will deliver not what Jono thinks it should look like ... I have followed his work since the photo.net days when he was using a Nikon D2 and posting wonderful post exposure pics.
Leica carefully places new cameras in the hands of those it trusts to represent its values and integrity and honor its NDAs...If you take the time to look at all of the pictures from the variety of sources using the beta Monochrom you will see a fairly diverse collection of files. That has allowed me to decide in favor of the MM as I see enough to tell me it will deliver if I am up to the task.
I would rather see this gamut of style than the overly hyped output we first saw from the M9 or the S2....nothing I did with my S2-P looked like the stuff on the Leica site...thankfully.
I assume that part of this divisive critique stems from disappointment that Leica did not introduce a D800 priced M10 or a Voitlander Bessa T priced MM....as the entry price assumes stratospheric levels so does the sense of disatisfaction with ones choices.
Enough already...back to the mosh pit.
Bob
I just browsed through my copy of "An Inner Silence The Portraits of Henri Cartier-Bresson" and I wonder how they would fare in this discussion...as at least 40% of them so much poorer focus and processing than those depicted by Jono. Yet they are held in high esteem....even though most were processed back home by a designate.
If these are poor vacation snaps then I hope that I can carry Jono's bags on his next trip. What I see is what the camera will deliver not what Jono thinks it should look like ... I have followed his work since the photo.net days when he was using a Nikon D2 and posting wonderful post exposure pics.
Leica carefully places new cameras in the hands of those it trusts to represent its values and integrity and honor its NDAs...If you take the time to look at all of the pictures from the variety of sources using the beta Monochrom you will see a fairly diverse collection of files. That has allowed me to decide in favor of the MM as I see enough to tell me it will deliver if I am up to the task.
I would rather see this gamut of style than the overly hyped output we first saw from the M9 or the S2....nothing I did with my S2-P looked like the stuff on the Leica site...thankfully.
I assume that part of this divisive critique stems from disappointment that Leica did not introduce a D800 priced M10 or a Voitlander Bessa T priced MM....as the entry price assumes stratospheric levels so does the sense of disatisfaction with ones choices.
Enough already...back to the mosh pit.
Bob
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
To obtain optimum sharpness. As demonstrated by the M8 an overlaid unsharp IR image deteriorates micro contrast sharpness. As the MM is all about clean acuity an IR filter is essential. As for gray tones, the camera has an incredible rendering and you can choose any range you like in post.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
I wouldn't be in the market for any of those cameras, so I'm not disappointed on those fronts. The Fuji X-100 continues to interest me more than any of the above (price is not the major issue), and for now I'm sticking with film -- for purely subjective reasons having little to do with cost and a great deal to do with process.
The M9 monochrome is an interesting camera, which is why I'm reading these threads. I suspect that for serious landscape use the D800 will prove to be roughly as good or perhaps a bit better. Time will tell.
GrahamWelland
Well-known
So Jaap, are you saying that the MM IS IR sensitive? I.e. to the degree that it is a worthy creative capability vs just something that needs filtering like the M8 for maximum acuity with visible light?