m9 the working mans version?

[JSU]

I suspect the biggest challenge facing a photo scheduled to stay in the Sahara for 30 days will be a source of power to charge batteries (applicable to any digital camera).

Does anyone make a solar powered batter charger that can charge lithium ion batteries that are commonly found in digital cameras?

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/85071-solar-charger-m8-mini-charger.html

and

http://www.voltaicsystems.com/

 

[monochromejrnl]

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/85071-solar-charger-m8-mini-charger.html

and

http://www.voltaicsystems.com/

Thanks! Very cool - John might find this useful if he settles on a digital camera for his project in the Sahara.

 

[Roger Hicks]

So basically people are telling us that Leica's are the only cameras that fail? I've had quite a few of cameras lock-up when using them. Some just wear, some design flaws.

The Nikon F Photomic "Fly-Away-Syndrome" where the meter head tended to fly off the camera during hard use did not seem to kill its reputation for a tough camera. That's why they added the extra pincers to the FTn head. The meter head is not well sealed against dirt, either.

So which cameras are so tough that no one has had a problem?

Is there a Digital Nikonos around?

Dear Brian,

Well, yes. But we've not even had much here in the way of anecdote, just "this very expensive camera might fail, possibly in conditions that most of us will never encounter".

I love the idea of a digital Nikonos.

Cheers,

R.

 

[twopointeight]

I didn't read every one of the above posts so apologies if I'm repeating anything. I'm a pro who used to use M6's in about 50% of my work. Now its 0%. All 5DM2, by default. Leica used to make a lot of money selling M bodies to amateurs who took note that most pros had at least one leica and used it for work. Now, with PJ in the doldrums and the price of an M9 geared more for affluent amateurs, Leica is not using the pro photographer as a marketing tool anymore. They need to make an M for half the cost or less, get those cameras back in the bags of working pros, who will publish their Leica shot photos and talk about them in interviews, ad campaigns and such. (I did one of those in 1985 and got my first M6 plus payment in exchange). Going back to that marketing model would sell many more cameras, I think?

 

[emraphoto]

man these threads go off into the weeds no matter how hard you try.

my thoughts were about whether or not it would serve Leica well to develop a 'better' service platform and produce a camera geared to working photojournalists/whatever.

could this 'relationship' with the big names in the industry help create a renewed credibility that was chock a block in the film days. could gearing a camera towards even rising stars (Nahr for example) serve to bridge the luxury > reliable/credible gap.

 

[emraphoto]

I didn't read every one of the above posts so apologies if I'm repeating anything. I'm a pro who used to use M6's in about 50% of my work. Now its 0%. All 5DM2, by default. Leica used to make a lot of money selling M bodies to amateurs who took note that most pros had at least one leica and used it for work. Now, with PJ in the doldrums and the price of an M9 geared more for affluent amateurs, Leica is not using the pro photographer as a marketing tool anymore. They need to make an M for half the cost or less, get those cameras back in the bags of working pros, who will publish their Leica shot photos and talk about them in interviews, ad campaigns and such. (I did one of those in 1985 and got my first M6 plus payment in exchange). Going back to that marketing model would sell many more cameras, I think?

aha! we appear to be back on track'ish (finger crossed). i concur with what has been said and i also think this might just sell a few more cameras for them.

 

[emraphoto]

Thanks! Very cool - John might find this useful if he settles on a digital camera for his project in the Sahara.

super cool... the backpack version is Legend! regardless of what i do i will be buying once of those!

 

[Roger Hicks]

I didn't read every one of the above posts so apologies if I'm repeating anything. I'm a pro who used to use M6's in about 50% of my work. Now its 0%. Now all 5DM2. Leica used to make a lot of money selling M bodies to amateurs who took note that most pros had at least one Leica and used it for work. Now, with PJ in the doldrums and the price of an M9 geared more for affluent amateurs, Leica is not using the pro photographer as a marketing tool anymore. They need to make an M for half the cost or less, get those cameras back in the bags of working pros, who will publish their Leica shot photos and talk about them in interviews, ad campaigns and such. (I did one of those in 1985 and got my first M6 plus payment in exchange). Going back to that marketing model would sell many more cameras, I think?

Well, yes, of course halving the price would sell more cameras. But to quote something a very successful businessman told me some 35 years ago, "any fool can give stuff away."

Where are they going to make the savings?

Cheers,

R.

 

[umcelinho]

I didn't read every one of the above posts so apologies if I'm repeating anything. I'm a pro who used to use M6's in about 50% of my work. Now its 0%. Now all 5DM2. Leica used to make a lot of money selling M bodies to amateurs who took note that most pros had at least one Leica and used it for work. Now, with PJ in the doldrums and the price of an M9 geared more for affluent amateurs, Leica is not using the pro photographer as a marketing tool anymore. They need to make an M for half the cost or less, get those cameras back in the bags of working pros, who will publish their Leica shot photos and talk about them in interviews, ad campaigns and such. (I did one of those in 1985 and got my first M6 plus payment in exchange). Going back to that marketing model would sell many more cameras, I think?

well said. Leica nowadays sells itself as bling, not as a tool. the special editions make leica appear more in fashion news than photography news. and when they are in photography news, it always has that "look at this extremely expensive camera with few buttons and features" feeling.

some people buy Leicas because of their features as photography tools, some because of its heritage and historical importance, and some because, well, it's expensive, so it's a thing to carry around and show they've got the dough.

Leica has made its name in the past focusing on the first group, but has shifted to the latter. I would be very happy to see Leica turning to pro photographers instead of just selling itself as a posh bling factory...

... but I feel most pro photogs prefer using automated DSLRs because of their point-and-shootness, with AF and AE etc and versatility, with a wide variety of focal lengths and zoom. It feels easier pressing a button and letting the camera focus and shoot 20 frames than manually focusing and get 1 frame, the risk of not getting an image seems lower.

 

[Roger Hicks]

well said. Leica nowadays sells itself as bling, not as a tool. the special editions make leica appear more in fashion news than photography news. and when they are in photography news, it always has that "look at this extremely expensive camera with few buttons and features" feeling.

some people buy Leicas because of their features as photography tools, some because of its heritage and historical importance, and some because, well, it's expensive, so it's a thing to carry around and show they've got the dough.

Leica has made its name in the past focusing on the first group, but has shifted to the latter. I would be very happy to see Leica turning to pro photographers instead of just selling itself as a posh bling factory...

... but I feel most pro photogs prefer using automated DSLRs because of their point-and-shootness, with AF and AE etc and versatility, with a wide variety of focal lengths and zoom. It feels easier pressing a button and letting the camera focus and shoot 20 frames than manually focusing and get 1 frame, the risk of not getting an image seems lower.

Exactly. And 'twas ever thus. Saying that any one of these reasons is more 'authentic' than any other is comong parlous close to saying, "Of course, I buy Leicas only for reason 1, and other Leica buyers are poseurs, wimps, nouveaux riches, etc."

Cheers,

R.

 

[leicashot]

I didn't read every one of the above posts so apologies if I'm repeating anything. I'm a pro who used to use M6's in about 50% of my work. Now its 0%. Now all 5DM2. Leica used to make a lot of money selling M bodies to amateurs who took note that most pros had at least one Leica and used it for work. Now, with PJ in the doldrums and the price of an M9 geared more for affluent amateurs, Leica is not using the pro photographer as a marketing tool anymore. They need to make an M for half the cost or less, get those cameras back in the bags of working pros, who will publish their Leica shot photos and talk about them in interviews, ad campaigns and such. (I did one of those in 1985 and got my first M6 plus payment in exchange). Going back to that marketing model would sell many more cameras, I think?

You are very correct indeed, but so are most of manufacturers. They're all creating cameras with pro spec for amateurs cause thats where the money is. The conversion rate from amateurs turning pro (overnight) with the acquisition of a pro spec camera is increasing by the minute. I know cause I see these people are certain events, and they're trying to talk to me like they know more, are more experienced and are better than me. A lot of the time, they're even carrying more equipment than me, sometimes better. It's kind of like living a dpreview forum experience in real life.

If people think that Leica isn't pushing to affluent amateurs, think about the no.1 Leica based website - Steve Huff Photos. An amateur who writes good reviews for amateurs. Even pro's like myself enjoy the read. Leica has always marketed to this segment, only now, this segment is growing, and FAST! Most people I know that own M9's are not professionals, and most professionals I know cannot afford/justify them. I'm just one of the lucky ones.

I used to crave a weatherproofed M9, but since doing a shoot in the poring rain, I have renewed faith in my M9; and Leica can market all they like to amateurs if thats what helps them stay afloat and continue creating the camera I know and love, in a digital format I can use for my work as well as my personal. Without this market segment, Leica would be a historical memory.

I have faith the Pro spec M will come, but only when it's financially viable. Until then, I'll continue to keep pushing the M9 as much a s I need to....with my trusty/weatherprooofed D3s (with 2 shutter replacements in under 100,000 frames) by my side 😉

 

[ottluuk]

Where are they going to make the savings?

Cheers,

R.

Design a somewhat simpler body and outsource manufacturing to Panasonic.

 

[leicashot]

Design a somewhat simpler body and outsource manufacturing to Panasonic.

The day Leica builds a cheap M for the masses outside of Germany is the day they sell out and lose total respect. They tried that with the CL, and failed. While your proposal may be a hit initially their credibility will be compromised and leave the market open for others to create something better, and they will.

Don't forget why we're even talking about Leica.

 

[emraphoto]

well said. Leica nowadays sells itself as bling, not as a tool. the special editions make leica appear more in fashion news than photography news. and when they are in photography news, it always has that "look at this extremely expensive camera with few buttons and features" feeling.

some people buy Leicas because of their features as photography tools, some because of its heritage and historical importance, and some because, well, it's expensive, so it's a thing to carry around and show they've got the dough.

Leica has made its name in the past focusing on the first group, but has shifted to the latter. I would be very happy to see Leica turning to pro photographers instead of just selling itself as a posh bling factory...

... but I feel most pro photogs prefer using automated DSLRs because of their point-and-shootness, with AF and AE etc and versatility, with a wide variety of focal lengths and zoom. It feels easier pressing a button and letting the camera focus and shoot 20 frames than manually focusing and get 1 frame, the risk of not getting an image seems lower.

if you knew how many folks who have chimed in, echoing my thoughts, who were working folks (some with an extraordinary amount of talent who wish to cast little wake here) you might think differently.

 

[emraphoto]

Exactly. And 'twas ever thus. Saying that any one of these reasons is more 'authentic' than any other is comong parlous close to saying, "Of course, I buy Leicas only for reason 1, and other Leica buyers are poseurs, wimps, nouveaux riches, etc."

Cheers,

R.

but choices never hurt.

 

[emraphoto]

You are very correct indeed, but so are most of manufacturers. They're all creating cameras with pro spec for amateurs cause thats where the money is. The conversion rate from amateurs turning pro (overnight) with the acquisition of a pro spec camera is increasing by the minute. I know cause I see these people are certain events, and they're trying to talk to me like they know more, are more experienced and are better than me. A lot of the time, they're even carrying more equipment than me, sometimes better. It's kind of like living a dpreview forum experience in real life.

If people think that Leica isn't pushing to affluent amateurs, think about the no.1 Leica based website - Steve Huff Photos. An amateur who writes good reviews for amateurs. Even pro's like myself enjoy the read. Leica has always marketed to this segment, only now, this segment is growing, and FAST! Most people I know that own M9's are not professionals, and most professionals I know cannot afford/justify them. I'm just one of the lucky ones.

I used to crave a weatherproofed M9, but since doing a shoot in the poring rain, I have renewed faith in my M9; and Leica can market all they like to amateurs if thats what helps them stay afloat and continue creating the camera I know and love, in a digital format I can use for my work as well as my personal. Without this market segment, Leica would be a historical memory.

I have faith the Pro spec M will come, but only when it's financially viable. Until then, I'll continue to keep pushing the M9 as much a s I need to....with my trusty/weatherprooofed D3s (with 2 shutter replacements in under 100,000 frames) by my side 😉

i agree to an extent with what you are saying, beyond the chatty amateurs who rarely make the trip out to where i lurk about. i don't think the two camps need to be mutually exclusive though. i suppose my thoughts were that creating a stronger presence in the top tier crowd might just propel more of the amateur/enthusiast crowd in the Leica direction.

 

[leicashot]

if you knew how many folks who have chimed in, echoing my thoughts, who were working folks (some with an extraordinary amount of talent who wish to cast little wake here) you might think differently.

I don't think he's disagreeing with you, only pointing out a very obvious fact....that 'most' professionals would rather opt for 'easier' photography. Its the serious amateurs that have more to prove by shooting with a more complicated camera (but also simpler in some ways) than a DSLR.

With Joe McNally (successfully) hyping automated TTL, it's no wonder people are wanting that too in Leica cameras. Automation and the quality of Leica....that thought alone makes me ill

 

[emraphoto]

i suppose it boils down to the 'most' word. 'most' is probably right.

 

[Keith]

The M9 may have the performance to cope with the rigors of being a PJ's regular tool on the ocasions it's actually in use but it's what happens to a camera between these times that probably dictates it's suitability for this type of work. Running somewhere and having the M9 swing out on a strap and smack into something will likely put it out of action if you're unlucky ... a current DSLR will probably do more damage to what it hits!

That crazy Japanese guy who does all the bizarre You Tube tests that are very funny had serious trouble getting a Canon and Nikon DSLR to actually stop working ... a lot of the abuse he aimed at these cameras would have finished an M9 off very promptly I'd imagine. What he did was extreme but it proved that it's what happens to a camera when it's not taking photographs that usually decides it's fate! 😛

 

[leicashot]

i suppose it boils down to the 'most' word. 'most' is probably right.

you hit the nail