New York May NYC Meet-Up

A few years ago I wanted to move to only contact printing 4x5 and 5x7. I still haven't had time to really restore my 5x7 Korona VI that Sam gave me. I think I will remove the leatherette then use increasing grades of Fine sandpaper on the mahogany. I want to finish it with a few layers of shellac. My 4x5 field camera is lighter than a dslr with battery pack. Of course the weight goes up with film holders but I believe there is no replacement for displacement, to use a muscle car analogy. The only problem with contact printing that I see is the cost of the paper. Azo paper or what replaced it is prohibitive but I don't think there is anything that can touch the tonality of a large format contact print done well.
On another note, I was just notified that I was offered my dream internship. This strategically positions me to possibly work with the VA in the future if I choose to do so. When my degree is done in a year, I will have worked with almost every population that I may encounter in the future.
Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
A few years ago I wanted to move to only contact printing 4x5 and 5x7. I still haven't had time to really restore my 5x7 Korona VI that Sam gave me. I think I will remove the leatherette then use increasing grades of Fine sandpaper on the mahogany. I want to finish it with a few layers of shellac. My 4x5 field camera is lighter than a dslr with battery pack. Of course the weight goes up with film holders but I believe there is no replacement for displacement, to use a muscle car analogy. The only problem with contact printing that I see is the cost of the paper. Azo paper or what replaced it is prohibitive but I don't think there is anything that can touch the tonality of a large format contact print done well.
On another note, I was just notified that I was offered my dream internship. This strategically positions me to possibly work with the VA in the future if I choose to do so. When my degree is done in a year, I will have worked with almost every population that I may encounter in the future.
Phil Forrest
Click to expand...

Phil,

The IQ from contact printed large format on Kodak AZO is amazing.

When printing is concerned, any form of printing when taking a format/medium to the standards of high IQ is expensive. Pick your poison...

The thing about contact printing with AZO though is that 8x10 does not require a vacuum frame and massive amounts of studio space. In a way this ends up being practical.

My Epson 7800 eats lots of roll paper and drinks ink. Silver wet printing is no bargain either, especially if you print big. With large format no reason to print big to magnify detail and tonality.

Congrates on the great opportunity.

Cal
 
Calzone-

D-25 replenisher-

Water @ 125f-750ml
Metol/elon-10 grams
Sodium Sulfite-100 grams
Sodium metaborate-20 grams
cold water to make-1 liter
 
Saul said:
Didn't Michael and Paula closed shop a while back??? Or is my memory for sh*t?
Click to expand...

I recall that one of them sadly passed away, but I don't know how it affects the availability of Lodima.
Adox and Foma have a Silver Chloride contact paper as well.

I'll keep some of the developer info if it cones to be useful. I began with HC110 which is mighty good for HP5 and very cheap using Dil E.
So many years reading about B&W, but when it comes to practice, any odd experiment with my inexperience bites back.
"For that type of picture and his taste, low contrast seems to be at preference" is what a senior camera club member said yesterday = I'm still clueless about printing so whatever comes seems to be good.

I seem to have consolidated into medium format for B&W. Dislike the tinyness and twistiness of too many pics in 35mm and actually haven't been using it much.
 
Tom, Interesting information on using Hc-110 and Double XX. I just developed 4 rolls of XX at 250 in a developer called Adox Borax MQ. It is a D-76 like developer but with enough changes that 10-20% more time is added to D-76 times. It is perfect for using in a Jobo because i can use D-76 times that are listed and because 10-20 % was supposed to be added the agitation of the Jobo cancels that out and D-76 times can be used.

I used 7 min at 68 degrees with this developer and XX at 250 and the results were outstanding. I'm going to repeat this until i find a better developer.

The Formula:


Adox Borax MQ
Metol 2 gm
Sodium Sulphite (anhydrous) 80 gm
Hydroquinone 4 gm
Borax 4 gm
Potassium Bromide 0.5 gm

Water to make 1.0 liter

This is similar to D-76 with slightly better sharpness, but development times must be increased by 10 - 20 %. This developer formula was used for testing the DIN speed of films. It gives full film speed, excellent tonality and improved sharpness compared to D-76. I actually make a quart and have a replenisher formula that I add at the rate of 20ml a roll.

Adox Borax Mq Replenisher

20 ml per roll

Metol 3g
Sodium Sulphite 80g
Hydroquinone 5g
Borax 18g
Water to 1 liter


I have used Adox Borax MQ developer and replenisher with several types of film and all have been outstanding.
 
One caveat; add a pinch of sulphite to the water and THEN add the Metol. If you don't do that you can watch the Metol oxidize before your eyes and "poof" turn brown and disburse.

Not good. So add a pinch of sulphite first then proceed with the rest of it.

And periodically filter out the crap that goes out of solution. When you run out of replenisher dump it and start over.


Also, just buy a box of 20 Mule Team Borax at the supermarket. You can use it for your laundry also LOL. That's all you need.
 
Nokton48 said:
Tom, Interesting information on using Hc-110 and Double XX. I just developed 4 rolls of XX at 250 in a developer called Adox Borax MQ. It is a D-76 like developer but with enough changes that 10-20% more time is added to D-76 times. It is perfect for using in a Jobo because i can use D-76 times that are listed and because 10-20 % was supposed to be added the agitation of the Jobo cancels that out and D-76 times can be used.

I used 7 min at 68 degrees with this developer and XX at 250 and the results were outstanding. I'm going to repeat this until i find a better developer.

The Formula:


Adox Borax MQ
Metol 2 gm
Sodium Sulphite (anhydrous) 80 gm
Hydroquinone 4 gm
Borax 4 gm
Potassium Bromide 0.5 gm

Water to make 1.0 liter

This is similar to D-76 with slightly better sharpness, but development times must be increased by 10 - 20 %. This developer formula was used for testing the DIN speed of films. It gives full film speed, excellent tonality and improved sharpness compared to D-76. I actually make a quart and have a replenisher formula that I add at the rate of 20ml a roll.

Adox Borax Mq Replenisher

20 ml per roll

Metol 3g
Sodium Sulphite 80g
Hydroquinone 5g
Borax 18g
Water to 1 liter


I have used Adox Borax MQ developer and replenisher with several types of film and all have been outstanding.
Click to expand...

Dan,

Thanks for posting this off your thread.

Let's give credit to Ian Grant who shared his findings. How generous and kind of him.

For 5222 users this developer seems optimized for sharpness.

Cal
 
Prest_400 said:
I recall that one of them sadly passed away, but I don't know how it affects the availability of Lodima.
Adox and Foma have a Silver Chloride contact paper as well.

I'll keep some of the developer info if it cones to be useful. I began with HC110 which is mighty good for HP5 and very cheap using Dil E.
So many years reading about B&W, but when it comes to practice, any odd experiment with my inexperience bites back.
"For that type of picture and his taste, low contrast seems to be at preference" is what a senior camera club member said yesterday = I'm still clueless about printing so whatever comes seems to be good.

I seem to have consolidated into medium format for B&W. Dislike the tinyness and twistiness of too many pics in 35mm and actually haven't been using it much.
Click to expand...

Jorde,

Next time you are in NYC I'll take you to the hospital where I work where they have about two dozen prints of "A Changing New York" taken by Bernice Abbott about a century ago with an 8x10 view camera.

The prints are framed and are part of a permanent display. The paper is single weight so the prints are dry mounted and are about 20x24.

For me I look to large format as my reference for IQ and in particular large prints that are done well.

Old man Steve said, "You can't print what is not there," and this means to start you need to have a good negative that is properly exposed.

Also in medium and large format the voicing is less about contrast and more about the range of tonality. In this manner mid tones is where a vast amount of information is held, in larger formats there is more shadow detail, and there is more perceived depth.

When you nose in even more detail is reveal as resolution.

I see this when I compare my 12x18 sized images against 20x30's. The bigger image opens up and there is a less contrasty image where the mids become more pronounced. Pretty much the files captured with my Monochrom transcend formats. My big prints resemble medium format and I dare say at times even large format.

Cal
 
Jorde,

Another show that I use as a reference was this Richard Avedon retrospective held at MOMA in the mid 70's. The exhibit was shot with an 8x10 and comprised life sized prints of celebs in B&W.

My favorite image was of Andy Warhol lifting his shirt to expose the scars from when Viva, a groupie of his, caught him in an elevator and emptied a 38 into him.

Bullet wounds are mighty ugly.

So the most recent reference is the last show at the old ICP: Salgado's "Genesis." These were large prints, up to 4x5 feet, that used small format digital and medium format film to create digital negatives that were used to make silver wet prints.

Salgado had the best lab in Paris, so pretty much this was a demonstration where digital and analog merged, no compromise, and the body of work was seamless in that unless you had a highly trained eye it was difficult to determine if the image capture was film or digital.

I viewed the show three times/ways. One was for content, and I selected my favorite images; next was an over view of the curation, and I looked into creating a critical review of the work; and lastly I tried to figure out which images utilized digital and which utilized film for image capture.

So I found that my eye is pretty well trained. Perhaps this is because I consider myself a fine art print maker who specializes in B&W. I was able to accurately distinguish between the digital and analog image captures accurately.

The giveaways were: enhanced shadow detail in the digital image captures; and wonderful smooth roll-off in the highlights on the film image captures.

Given that this French lab made perfect negatives.

So John once said that, "The best asset for printing is a trained eye." I agree.

Also know that it took a while to realize that I can print what I can't see. I use a calibrated 27 EIZO as my monitor, I dim it down to 80 Lux, and this is in a room that is darkened. The idea is to eliminate high contrast.

When I made a print for Joe I took notice of a squirel in the foreground in a shadow that I did not see on my EIZO in his shot. People that rely on heavy contrast don't realize that they are eliminating shadow detail.

Also the scale of the image and print are a factor. I say, "Big prints don't lie."

So I said, "Pick your poison," to Phil. If you do a "Dan" and go crazy you can set up a darkroom for wet printing. You can print large digitally with Piezography like I do and spend tens of thousands on paper and ink. You could contact print large format for ultimate IQ.

The problem you have to know is that printing gets expensive, and that is one reason why few shooters print.

Kinda funny that I took a lot of heat for just making negatives, and having a disregard for printing.

Cal
 
$962.00 for my Rolex overhaul plus tax and shipping. An eight week wait. Seems like a camera repair in length. For the past 16 years though the watch has been running nonstop. Even when I wore my Panerai I kept it running on a watch winder to maintain it. Like a camera it needs to be used.

Glad that "Maggie" is paying for this one. Kinda like a payback for all the free photography I do.

Maggie yesterday got a big gig with a bank/credit card. Yesterday was also her last class of teaching. The end is near of her work career as a professor.

I kinda killed my legs going for that run with the heavy hands on Wednesday. Yesterday's run ended up being only about a mile before I gave up and walked home the remaining two miles.

Its been a while since I have run, and muscles have been reawakened. Use to run from Williamsburg to Dumbo and back on the weekends back in the day.

I'm mixing it up between biking, running and simulated cross country skiing with the elyptical.

At the MET the show "Play It Loud" features 130 guitars of rock stars and other rock history on display. My friend Cris, the guitar builder, tells me that Pete Townsted's Les Paul Gold Top (Number "6") he repaired and in this museum show he is given credit for having repaired the guitar.

I'll get more smut on this. Like Hendrix Pete has been known to destroy guitars.

Another episode of "Guitar Heaven" yesterday. I love the new Fralin pickups in the carved top Tele. Pretty much ideal and just what I want. Now I want to optimize another Tele with a pickup change.

Cal
 
Nokton48 said:
Cal,

I'm thinking of trying Adox Lupex silver chloride paper processed in Amidol for contact printing. This is the current replacement for Azo.

See Here

https://www.adox.de/Photo/lupex-contact-printing-paper/
Click to expand...

Dan,

Again thanks for this.

As I prepare for retirement, I see three ways to specialize, and it all depends on living and work space. Printing is expensive wether it is contact printing large format, silver wet printing, of digitally using Piezography.

In the end I'm a bit hedged, but if I could I would love to have the capability of pursuing all of the above three.

Cal
 
Oh what fun shooting my Wetzlar M6 with a Black Canon 28/3.5 loaded with 5222. I shot indoors at a Guitar show out on Long Island, Scott a local blues guitar slinger, up close playing in Bobby's booth. With only 500 ISO and a slow lens the shutter speed was only 1/15 second.

Rigged with a TA Rapidwinder and a TA Rapidgrip the M6 was like coming home.

Cal
 
I wish I'd be able to fly to NYC in a close future, but I think you'll probably be retired when I'm able to!
I haven't seen Avedon's work in person, where it really gets presence but Genesis was exhibited a few years ago within range and I dedicated an afternoon to it. Gorgeous large prints.



I'm glad that the camera club scored rolls upon rolls of Ilford RC. Free 8xXX" printing. Good to get the technique down.
 
Prest_400 said:
I wish I'd be able to fly to NYC in a close future, but I think you'll probably be retired when I'm able to!
I haven't seen Avedon's work in person, where it really gets presence but Genesis was exhibited a few years ago within range and I dedicated an afternoon to it. Gorgeous large prints.



I'm glad that the camera club scored rolls upon rolls of Ilford RC. Free 8xXX" printing. Good to get the technique down.
Click to expand...

Jorde,

The Avedone Retrospective kinda changed my life. It has been an enduring reference for IQ.

Interesting to note that Jon Cone of Piezography fame printed for Avedon.

At ICP I think Dan's criticism that they "cheezed out" by not using museum glass. I happen to see some of the same prints from Genesis in a Chelsea gallery displayed "naked" without any cover glass or acrylic. The were matted and framed.

Now those naked prints were an eye opener.

Cal
 
Just throwing this out in case...

Just throwing this out in case...

Hey does anyone happen to have a LARGE format film or paper holder that can be used for exposures? I mean large format, not the 4x5 or 5x7 formats.
I'm hoping to find an 11x17 or 16x20 holder that I can load with paper then use in my super secret art/photo/grad school project.

Aside from that, does anyone know how to build a ULF film or paper holder? I figure I could do it with some clamps and sandwiching wood. My only must is that it has to have a dark slide.

I wish I could get liquid light to behave. I have a quart of that stuff but can never get development right. Or maybe never get exposure right. Who knows. Every one of my experiments with it have failed.

EDIT: I just realized what I need is a large format X-ray film holder. Large, like 1:1 scale chest X-ray holder. Something bigger than 8x10. I wonder if the online-auction-place-that-sucks-valuable-time-away-from-life has such a thing.

Thanks all.

Phil Forrest
 
Phil_F_NM said:
Hey does anyone happen to have a LARGE format film or paper holder that can be used for exposures? I mean large format, not the 4x5 or 5x7 formats.
I'm hoping to find an 11x17 or 16x20 holder that I can load with paper then use in my super secret art/photo/grad school project.

Aside from that, does anyone know how to build a ULF film or paper holder? I figure I could do it with some clamps and sandwiching wood. My only must is that it has to have a dark slide.

I wish I could get liquid light to behave. I have a quart of that stuff but can never get development right. Or maybe never get exposure right. Who knows. Every one of my experiments with it have failed.

EDIT: I just realized what I need is a large format X-ray film holder. Large, like 1:1 scale chest X-ray holder. Something bigger than 8x10. I wonder if the online-auction-place-that-sucks-valuable-time-away-from-life has such a thing.

Thanks all.

Phil Forrest
Click to expand...

Phil,

Back in art school I worked as an artist assistant for the artist Ed McGowin. He was doing large scale sculptures he called "Inscapes" that were monumental in size but held docuramas winthin/inside.

I used liquid light to try and fabricate large tiles to attempt to make large prints, but the results were poor. I ended up making paper silver wet prints as the final solution using rolled paper. I used plastic window box planters as development trays where I could only partially submerge the paper.

Pretty much I was a half scale model maker.

I ended up getting photo credits for the photography along with Lewis W. Hines published in "Art Forum."

The person to contact is Christian. He is making/fabricating 5x7 holders. Also there is this guy online that does all this camera building that sells all kinds of stuff for crazies (Sherry's word for people like us).

Anyways this early training is why I tend to think big and on large scale. The follow through influence is working for Grumman when it was the fourth largest military contractor, and having unlimited resources and budgets (taxpayer dollars).

Cal
 
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