Mechanical XPAN, is it possible?

[retinax]

Would hacking the front off of a Lomography Sprocket Rocket work? It has a native panoramic film gate, and the all-plastic construction might be easier to hack.

Not only does it have the panoramic film gate, it also already has the right advance mechanism and finder! This is the obvious choice.

 

[OlivierAOP]

Yes modding the Holga would be certainly easier. I can share details on disassembly. The Lomo would be similar I think, although the finder is for a 30mm lens. With a metal camera you'd need good vice, and they are mechanically much more complex.

IMO the biggest challenge with the DIY pano is the focusing. Only a couple shots of my latest roll were in correct focus. I'm waiting for an accessory rangefinder, hopefully it'll help.


Another idea would be to mod a Fuji GS645, which are relatively compact. I've never held one but I suppose all you would have to do is open the gate, seems it could be ~60mm wide.

 

[dourbalistar]

Not only does it have the panoramic film gate, it also already has the right advance mechanism and finder! This is the obvious choice.

The Lomo would be similar I think, although the finder is for a 30mm lens. With a metal camera you'd need good vice, and they are mechanically much more complex.

IMO the biggest challenge with the DIY pano is the focusing. Only a couple shots of my latest roll were in correct focus. I'm waiting for an accessory rangefinder, hopefully it'll help.

The Lomo Sprocket Rocket has a hotshoe - I was surprised it was a hotshoe and not just a simple coldshoe! You could attach an auxiliary viewfinder with the appropriate focal length, or an external rangefinder.

 

[panF]

Lens suggestion(s):

For these type of 35 mm panoramic cameras I've seen people are using typicaly

1. Wide angle 6x6 TLR lenses, mainly mamiya 55mm or 65 mm

2. (Super)Angulons like 65mm or 90mm from Technika type 6X9 cameras

3. Mamiya Universal press camera lenses like 50mm or 65mm . With a lens mount available from Cameradactyl it seems to be easier but expensive.
https://www.cameradactyl.com/buttergrip/mupmount

4. Other wide lenses for 4x5 cameras

I guess Mamiya TLR lenses are the cheapest option. I might try that one first.

What are your opinion about the Super Angulon 65mm f8 ?

Any other comparatively cheap large format lens suitable for this kind of project? Particularly Topcor/Topcon lenses?

Thanks

 

[retinax]

I don't see the point in a panoramic with such long focal lengths. What about the 45 mms for Mamiya, Bronica and Pentax 645? Sure, they'll stick out very far because they're made for SLRs, but it's a much more useful/panoramic focal length and they're affordable. More compact but more expensive: tilt/shift lenses for 35mm.

 

[OlivierAOP]

I don't see the point in a panoramic with such long focal lengths. What about the 45 mms for Mamiya, Bronica and Pentax 645? Sure, they'll stick out very far because they're made for SLRs, but it's a much more useful/panoramic focal length and they're affordable. More compact but more expensive: tilt/shift lenses for 35mm.

The issue is that they need to be shuttered. The Bronicas can be disassembled and fitted into a no. 0 shutter. Apparently the Nikon PC-shift lens fit into a no. 3. There is more info on panomicron.com

Another option is the Koni Omega lenses (58 and 60mm) but I think the shutter operation is behind the mount? But it comes with helicoid.

And yes the Topcon 65mm 6x9 would have appropriate coverage, are relatively cheap and can be adapted to an helicoid the same way the Mamiya TLRs can.

IMO the large formats are a bit overkill given that 6x6 coverage is all you need, and wide = expensive in that format.

 

[retinax]

The issue is that they need to be shuttered.

Ah yes of course. There is the possibility of extending a focal plane shutter, like the gentleman whose website I've liked somewhere in the beginning of this thread does. Of course that's difficult and probably doesn't work with all fp shutters.
I wonder if leaf shutter behind the lens might work though. It did for some early SLRs and a few RFs.

 

[panF]

I too thought that in-lens shutter was mandatory till I saw this gentleman's projects on Panoramic SLRs. But that's a big job of modifying (cloth) shutters I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FAwrk9P14g&t=1s

https://zeissikonveb.de/start/basteleien/praktica panorama reflex/exa-rama.html

 

[OlivierAOP]

Are there any cheap-ish folding 6x6s for 220 film? Otherwise you're stuck grafting backing paper onto a 135 roll or skip frames, plus you need to open/shut the back midway into the roll. And they usually come with 75mm lens which is a bit long for pano format. My first try was with a Kiev 60 + 45mm. Not fun to carry around!


BTW the German gent at zeissikonveb.de is quite the artisan. DIY Pano SLR. Next level mod!!

 

[OlivierAOP]

No.
What you need to do, if you take the route of a folder with a red window advance, is to fabricate all your stuff up, then load a sacrificial roll of 35mm and hand index how far you have to turn the advance to get proper frame spacing. This is art you need to suffer for 😉
The frame counter needs to be disregarded or completely removed if it locks the advance.
Otherwise, just get a 6x7 or 6x9 and crop to your heart's content.
Phil Forrest

This is what I did for the Kiev but didn't go as far as modding the counter. Skipped frames and carried a dark bag to reset the counter. The folders are quite compact but @ 75mm...

The 6x7 or 6x9 or anamorphic add-ons are pretty bulky and you might not be able to compose properly. If one is happy with cropping I would suggest cropping digital. I get better results @12MP on the a7II than with the Holga kludge. I speak for myself but a "mechanical Xpan" would use 35mm film and be relatively compact.

 

[panF]

I guess most people have already looked into this thread:

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135342

 

[panF]

What kind of Helicoid size you're using 12-17mm, 15-26mm, 17-31mm etc?

 

[OlivierAOP]

What kind of Helicoid size you're using 12-17mm, 15-26mm, 17-31mm etc?

It should depend on the focal length and helicoid "speed" or thread pitch. I used a 17-31mm on the 55mm because I had it. It's way too fast: it goes from infinity to 1m in just over a 1/8th turn. Maybe the shorter ones are slower? I have a 12-17 on the way for another project, we'll see.



(Edit: the pitch on the 17-31 helicoid is 24mm per turn... on a Pentax 50mm it's 12)


BTW, for those making their own focusing scales, here's a useful formula. The lens movement from infinity position to focused on subject at distance D (from film plane) is f*f/(D-2f). Don't know how it's derived but it seems accurate (up to D=10*f apparently).


Edit. Did a bit of optics maths and the correct formula is f*f + x*x = x*(D - dN - 2f), where x is the lens movement from infinity position and dN is the distance between principal points. In most cases dN << D, and x << f (for relatively distant subjects, not for close-ups) so it approximates to the simpler formula.

 

[Huss]

This guy converted/is converting Nikon FEs into pano cameras:

https://www.35mmc.com/22/06/2020/fauxpan-just-another-diy-35mm-panorama-camera-by-freeman-lin/

 

[OlivierAOP]

Working on a DIY rangefinder coupling for the next DIY pano camera.


DSCF7275 by Olivier, on Flickr


Removed the distance wheel on the BLIK rangefinder, and put a linear cam ala Kalart coupling (Graflex 4x5), operated via bike cable that would connect to the lens. We'll see if if works...

 

[OlivierAOP]

Here is my latest monstrosity. Wirgin stereo camera converted to panoramic with Mamiya 55mm lens. Blik rangefinder modded to couple with the lens. Seems to be accurate within 10cm at close distances. Rangefinders are really finicky; took a long time to make it work, IF it works. Will test with film next week. Also have a Bronica 40mm f/4 on a mechanical shutter I'd like to adapt.


DSCF7302 by Olivier, on Flickr

 

[pyeh]

That's is incredible, Olivier, that coupled rangefinder. Well done, and good luck.

 

[retinax]

Very cool! For that 40mm, how about using the rangefinder from one of those fixed lens rfs that came with a 40? Although scale focus should work ok as well.

 

[OlivierAOP]

Thanks both. The coupling is a re-invention of the Graflex design from the 50's. In principle a cam can be made for any focal length.

 

[shawn]

Great thread. Much more modest but I'm going to try out a variation of this:

Fuji TexPan on my GSW690III.

Doing it a little simpler by skipping the take up canister and instead wind onto a 120 roll with 35mm spacing in it. I'll have to unload in a changing bag but not a big deal. Also skipping the leader which would have saved film. On the roll I just used to check the advance it gave me 14 shots.

Shawn