My first M7 is here .. and it overexposes..?

[akptc]

My new (barely used) M7 arrived earlier today and I quickly shot two rolls through it looking for problems. Shot a roll of Kodak BW400 and a roll of Superia 100. What I found was:

1. The M7 is a dream to handle, easily the most fun camera I’ve ever held. This I expected.

2. The M7 overexposes in AE mode. This one was a shock. In situations where my R-D1 or even the Hexar RF would expose right on the money, the M7 tends to overexpose by ~2 stops, I am guestimating. Panicking, I searched the net for answers and found this. Apparently the M7 meter indeed does (or at least some <earlier?> ones did) tend to overexpose. Quote from that site:

" ... I also found the M7 overexposes a little (as do other meter Ms I have used), which helps. […]

I can confirm this. In a typical 36exp roll, I would lose about five shots due AE misbehavior (a thirteen percent failure rate)."

I also compared the meter readings from the M7 and the R-D1 indoors and outdoors, and the M7 will nearly always indicate longer exposure.

So I wonder – is this truly a universal “thing” with all M7s and one should just learn to compensate for it or would I be better off having the meter checked out?

The 3 pics attached are the overexposed shots and the pic of my “new baby” 🙂

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

 

[BudGreen]

I have an M7 and I've never had a problem with overexposure, and I spend a good deal of time in AE mode. Those shots look way overexposed. Are you sure that the film speed is set correctly and that the exposure compensation dial on the back is set to zero?

 

[akptc]

...Are you sure that the film speed is set correctly and that the exposure compensation dial on the back is set to zero?

Yeah, that was the 1st thing I checked; both cassettes were DX coded and the dial on the back of the camera was set to DX, no compensation. Btw, is there a way to tell whether the camera is reading the ISO from the cassette correctly?

 

[wlewisiii]

I have read that the DX reading is where the problem comes from. I do not (heh, by any stretch of the imagination) own a M7, so this is purely from remembering things read online. I, personally, think that a M7, even second hand, costs enough that everything should "just work" and feel you should have it checked out. It's one thing for me to be a bottom feeder and buy a CL with a dead meter for $200. It's a very different thing to spend, what ~$2000, for a M7 and not have the metering be right? Nope. Wrong Answer.

Good luck.

William

 

[Zack]

you could try doing a test wear you manually set the asa on the camera, and see if it still overexposes, maybe the dx isnt reading it correctly

 

[BudGreen]

Yeah, that was the 1st thing I checked; both cassettes were DX coded and the dial on the back of the camera was set to DX, no compensation. Btw, is there a way to tell whether the camera is reading the ISO from the cassette correctly?

Look through the viewfinder and turn on the camera. The film speed will momentarily be displayed in the digital readout. If it's flashing, it means that the ISO dial is set differently from what the DX contacts detect.

 

[akptc]

Look through the viewfinder and turn on the camera. The film speed will momentarily be displayed in the digital readout. If it's flashing, it means that the ISO dial is set differently from what the DX contacts detect.

Nope, nothing is displayed in the viewfinder while (or immediately after) turning on the camera. Once I press the shutter in AE, I see the speed selected. Could it be that the DX reader is bad... ?

 

[akptc]

Sorry, I just figured out how to get it to display the (correct) ISO from the DX code. Tested it with ISO 100 and 400 cassesstes.

So DX coding seems not to be the problem. What else could it be? I am puzzled to no end.

(10 minutes later).

Well, I tested the same spot on my office wall with the M7, the Minolta Auto Meter IIIF, the VC Meter II, and the R-D1, and the all came in within +/1 half a stop of each other. This makes me think that it was perhaps the sky that fooled the M7 meter?

Tomorrow I will try to do the manual ISO setting + AE test that Zack suggested, see what happens. This is all very weird.

 

[BudGreen]

Good luck Andy. You might try metering off of a grey card for a couple of shots to make sure the camera isn't being fooled by backlighting, etc. You probably know this, but you can press the shutter button halfway down to lock the AE while recomposing after metering.

 

[akptc]

Thank you Bud, I am hoping this was all just a fluke and my next two rolls will come out golden 🙂

 

[john neal]

Andy,

I have exactly the same problem with my MP, only there is no DX or AE on the MP. I lost 2 whole rolls of Kodak 100asa print film in Egypt to this, a consistent +2 stops over exposure (even on print, which is usually very tolerant) - something I could not know until I got them back from processing, and shots I cannot now replace <grr>.

I don't know, but think the sensor is probably the same type as your M7, so it could be there is something in the design that just doesn't like certain types of scene. Most of my shots were taken in very bright sunlit conditions - the really galling thing is that I manually adjusted some of the shots to cater for very bright content, so those ended up +4 stops over !!

If you shoot slides, this must be a real pain.

 

[peter_n]

Andy I have not read about exposure issues with the M7 before. I have two and they're both very accurate. I'm hoping that its just a case of the meter being fooled. You will love the camera! 🙂

 

[whitecat]

Make sure to check the exposure compensation dial
. It sometimes slips to one way or the other.

 

[harmsr]

Remember that the metering area on the M7 is actually very large and may take some getting used to, in order to judge where to properly meter.

The circle for metering is a diameter of 2/3 the size of the small leg of frame lines for the focal length that you are using. The M7 will try to average all of that to an 18% grey. The meter is really very accurate once you learn how to meter with it.

Try using a grey card as others suggested to confirm it is working correctly, and also try some shots in subdued/non-contrasty light which should be easy to meter.

Best,

Ray

 

[akptc]

All is good again

All is good again

It appears that the presumed chronic overexposure by my new M7 was a one-time fluke, probably due to an unnoticed rotation of the compensation dial. Today I loaded Kodak's C41 400 B&W film in the M7, Contax G2, Hexar RF, and (just for fun) Ricoh 500 equipped with the VC Meter II, and went shooting.

The results suggest that, while this M7 tends to expose just a tad more than the G2 or the Hexar RF (at least in some test shots), overall there is not an overexposure issue.

- Thank you all for your replies, they helped me get motivated to test this as thoroughly as I knew how, and now I am a very happy camper 😀

The pics below are in order: M7, Hexar, G2. The gray card you see in some shots is an actual "gray card".

 

[akptc]

One more set: M7, Hexar RF, Contax G2

 

[akptc]

And the final sample: M7, Hexar, G2

 

[blakley]

I *always* guess the exposure before I read the in-camera meter on my MP, and if anything seems wrong (i.e. the meter disagrees with my estimate), I meter off the back of my hand and sometimes try shots both at the meter-indicated exposure and at my estimated exposure, just to be safe. My eye is about as accurate as the meter in most common lighting situations these days. I wouldn't try this for slide film, though - for that I carry an external incident meter.

 

[BudGreen]

Glad to see that it all worked out, Andy. You'll love the M7.

 

[akptc]

I too try to guestimate the exposure and then check the camera's numbers. I guess I was so enjoying the handling of the M7 that all reason evaporated from my brain 🙂 I kind of expected it to perform miracles too, you know - it's a Leica for Pete's sakes! Funny thing though, my R-D1 cost almost as much as this M7 and I was much more "critically inclined" when I first got it.. go figure...

It's growing on me already, this fine, fine little camera. Now I need to decide whether to take it with me on my trip to France instead of the G2, which would normally be my 1st choice for "sure thing" vacation pics.