My new Leica M6 0.85 with Summicron 50mm!

[Banky]

Does it have any evident of opening the box? If so it might be swap from some postal service.
Or it might be a set up scenario to blame on the postal service, so you would not go after the seller, or harder to chase them down. In this case he/she can argue with paypal that they send the package out with prove of tracking, etc.

I hope you get the money back. I believe the bad karma will go after whoever is the criminal.

Best,

 

[ianglean]

I am currently in the hunt for an M6. As much as I am excited to get one quickly I try not to buy one from impulse. I would love to buy one from a forum member since most likely it is well taken cared of as compared to some units from an ebay seller who got it from an estate. I am also looking into reputable online stores. It is almost impossible to get one here in the Philippines since most Leica owners simply don’t let go of their babies.

I hope you get things sorted out.​

 

[Tor1Amos]

Thx for the support.
The sellers identity is kept a secret, but off course he could chose to post here, and tell his side of the story. I have letting him know about this tread.

Now - The seller has got the same pictures as Ive posted here. He claims that the tape wrappings around the package isnt his work. He claims that someone has opened the package and stolen the camera and the lens.
I do not know what to belive. IF I had wanted to scam someone, I probably would have blamed the post my self.
The seller has suggested to send me a new M6, and this time use DHL or UPS. He didnt mention the Summicron, and he wants me to pay for (not for the M6) the shipment.

I have a very simpel policy. I do not hustle anyone. No-one is to hustle me. I just dont accept it.
In this case - who knowes what happened. But the way I see it, it is the seller who is responsible for the item until it reaches the buyer.
Beeing an italian, he should know about the italian postal service, and avoid using them.

 

[gandalfk7]

I am very sorry.. and i fell very bad for my country that has such reputation
(I didn't expected nothing different, our image is way too compromised, I hope Europe gets rid of Italy soon snce we don't deserve to take part at this beautiful thing).

may I know of which city the seller was from?
which payement method you used?
can you also give me the serials of the items sent form italy, please?
MP of course.

I only hope to be useful.

 

[gandalfk7]

CUT:
Beeing an italian, he should know about the italian postal service, and avoid using them.

that's absolutely the best thing you could say.

it's totally true, it's pure idiocy not to use a serious courier for this kind of items..

 

[Tor1Amos]

I am very sorry.. and i fell very bad for my country that has such reputation
(I didn't expected nothing different, our image is way too compromised, I hope Europe gets rid of Italy soon snce we don't deserve to take part at this beautiful thing).

may I know of which city the seller was from?
which payement method you used?
can you also give me the serials of the items sent form italy, please?
MP of course.

I only hope to be useful.

Thank you.
No - I cant give any information wich makes it possible to identify the seller. Not even the serial number. I he wish to post on this tread or make his own, it is up to him.
I paid the money directly to his bank account.

The seller will send me a new (used) M6. But not a Summicron - because the actual Summicron he was offering me was cosmetic not in good shape, and I therefore manage to get the price quite low all togheter. He has to pay 1000 Euro for the M6 and he cant get a Summicron for the 100 Euro wich is left . This is the sellers matematich - not mine 🙂

I belive he should be responsible for the total amount of 1100 Euro plus the shipment - which I paid. But he doesent agree. I also have to pay for the new shipment, but this time avoiding the italian postal service and we will use UPS og DHL instead, insured.

The seller states wery clear that he is not a scammer - and I might belive him. This is a sad story, perhaps for the both of us.

And it dosent end before I have the M6 in my hands.

 

[gandalfk7]

I perfectly understand you cannot give me any info,
I saw your message posted almost at the same time as mine but I hate
to modify a previous message so I left it like it was.

The seller refused to refund you?
He insisted in shipping you another M6 or is it by mutual consense?

(you used paypal o bank transfer?)

I hope you can get your camera very quickly and at least in part, forget this horrible experience..


Matteo

 

[rlouzan]

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=974617#post974617

 

[edodo]

Italian post was on the line with international ebay sellers because custom clearance is prehistorical in Italy. Don't know much now but a couple of year back when the communist were in the gouvernment, the custom laws were ridiculously nationalist and protective.

 

[RichardB]

It is the seller's responsibility to assure safe delivery of your purchase. I explain this to each seller for any costly item and i always use PayPal followed up with American Express most times. I have used Western Union to Russia in the past with no problems.
If the seller shipped the camera to you without insurance, he is out the $1100 Euro's, not you.
Unfortunately you learned a lesson never to deposit money straight into someones account.
I hope you collect but your chances of doing so are probably slim. For every person that wants an honest sale there are at least 10 others out there thinking of ways to scam your money from you. Good luck.-Dick
PS Why can't you Post the name of the seller?

 

[raid]

This is not good at all. I hope that you will get all items bought by you.
I bought my M6 0.85 from a gentleman online. It may have been RFF or maybe PN.
I have been fortunate in that quite often I am allowed to use an item for several weeks or even months before buying it. It may be an exception and not the rule.

 

[bob338]

this experience can serve as an example of why so many sellers here only sell to their home country or continent.

bob

 

[Makten]

Remember that this must be a terrible situation for the seller too, if he's not a scammer. He posted the goods and they didn't arrive. What if it DID arrive and the receiver is the scammer? I'm not pointing in that direction, but how should he know?
He did a mistake when choosing to send the stuff without an insurance, but anyone could do that, beleiving that it should work out well. Now it didn't, and both of you are scammed by someone else. 🙁

This is the reason I never ever buy things on Ebay, or from people abroad in general.

 

[sahe69]

Oh man. This is more or less the worst thing that could happen buying off the internet. I hope you'll find an acceptable solution with the seller. At least he responded which is a good start.

 

[sahe69]

This is the reason I never ever buy things on Ebay, or from people abroad in general.

You can be scammed also in your home country, even face to face.

I've bought probably more than 150 items from eBay (out of those over 100 were photo related stuff like lenses, cameras, filters, film etc.) or here and only once or twice had an issue. Both these items were from eBay, not RFF.

 

[Makten]

You can be scammed also in your home country, even face to face.

Of course, but in my "small" country (~10 million people) it's less likely to happen. I also alway use postal services that is safe and lets me get the gear before the money is drawn from my account.

Edit: I just realized you are from Finland, so you obviously know what I'm talking about.

I've bought probably more than 150 items from eBay (out of those over 100 were photo related stuff like lenses, cameras, filters, film etc.) or here and only once or twice had an issue. Both these items were from eBay, not RFF.

One or two "issues" out of 150 is too much of a risk for me. Sooner or later, you'll get scammed if you don't use any sort of safe transactions or insurances.

 

[Matus]

This is indeed a sad and serious situation, but I am surprised to hear that the seller is responsible for the shipping. It is usually a choice of the buyer to select shipping option. At least that is my experience and also something I have seen in many eBay auctions.

The worst thing is that if the theft happened somewhere in the post office, that there is nearly impossible to find out. I am just wondering how the post clerk would select which package to open - if it was not insured than it probably did not have any description from outside. Or did it?

 

[Stravinsky]

I think few of the comments here are based on wrong assumptions.

Just my .2 cents now. Italy is a western democracy integrated into the European Union, where hardly a government can modify the interchange with other countries by applying "nationalist" or "protective" laws at his will. This matter is strictly regulated by the EU and the international commercial treaties.

Different thing is the "organization" here. I agree Italian posts can be disorganised and this affect the timings of delivery. I've learnt to live with that.

My experience: I've been active the last few years on selling and purchasing vintage fountain pens from all over the world (hundreds, sometime with high value) relying on the national post system and I never got a problem, as long as the shipping is registered.

I agree with Richard: the seller is to blame here, as always in such a trades. But just because there is one bad guy doesn't mean the country is made by bad guys.

 

[Makten]

But just because there is one bad guy doesn't mean the country is made by bad guys.

Do you mean that the seller is a "bad guy" because he was naive enough to trust the Italian posts?

 

[Tor1Amos]

This is indeed a sad and serious situation, but I am surprised to hear that the seller is responsible for the shipping. It is usually a choice of the buyer to select shipping option. At least that is my experience and also something I have seen in many eBay auctions.

The worst thing is that if the theft happened somewhere in the post office, that there is nearly impossible to find out. I am just wondering how the post clerk would select which package to open - if it was not insured than it probably did not have any description from outside. Or did it?

Well, the seller had written "M6" on the label of the box and also written the value. A bad call, considering he was using the itlian postal service.

To anyone who wonder why I dont name the seller - its just because it IS possible that he is a honest man, and the italian post is to blame. Also, I guess the forum rules is against it. He (as he says) getting hold of another M6 0.85 and we are now discussing the best way to ship the camera to me.