negative+negative=positive?

[jibanes]

Hello, I would like to reverse some (120 format) B&W negatives to positives without any chemistry or altering the original negative, is it possible to take a picture of a negative on B&W film, which would make a negative of a negative, and therefore a B&W positive? I know some labs do that (DR5), but I think I'd rather do it myself for cost reasons, is this possible? How good can we expect the results to be, assuming that a good light source (lightbox) is placed behind the original negative? Thanks, Jerome

 

[tlitody]

contact print onto film.

 

[jibanes]

contact print onto film.

Can this be done without a darkroom?

 

[venchka]

contact print onto film.

Can this be done without a darkroom?

Not easily. It might be possible in a dark tent like a Harrison. Getting everything aligned and sorting out the exposure would be difficult.

Your way involves a camera with 1:1 macro capability. Any copy will ALWAYS be less than the original.

If an outside lab will do it, that seems the best way.

Why not just shoot B&W film and process the film yourself as a positive?

 

[Robert Lai]

I used to do this with a slide copier, my Micro Nikkor 55mm 2.8, TTL flash, and my F3. The film for this is 35mm motion picture film Kodak 5302. Motion pictures shot in B&W negatives are then contact printed on the 5302 to make the final projection stock. The film is blue insenstive, and is developed using print (yes print, not film) developer, and you can examine it under a red safelight. Makes beautiful B&W slides for projection.

Unfortunately, while you could previously order 100 ft stock directly from Kodak for about $20, now you have a minimum order of 1000 feet!

It's better to use the DR5 option.

 

[Robert Lai]

I forgot to add that the film speed of 5302 is about ISO 6.

 

[Robert Lai]

Darn, I should have edited what I wrote. 5302 is sensitive ONLY to blue (monochromatic) thus allowing you to develop under a red safelight.

 

[tlitody]

Can this be done without a darkroom?

you would need a makeshift darkroom such as a light tight cupboard

The films needs to be held tightly together and sandwiching between glass is best for this. Then you need a low output light and the ability to control exposure time. And of course you need an exposure time which is tricky without testing.

In a darkroom you can use an enlarger negative holder to sandwich the film together if it has glass in top and bottom.

But as someone said you can do it with camera if you have a macro lens capable of 1:1 or using a slide copier which is a bit like a macro lens. The latter is probably the easiest method but for a one off its pricey unless you get lucky and can buy one cheaply. And I don't know if you can get them for 120 film.

contact print done well will give best reproduction but films must be tight together. And black non reflective background.

 

[Gary E]

I know some might think sending film by mail and receiving it back by UPS may be a hassle, but it's quite simple really. And yes, the cost might be a bit much, but the DR5 process only costs a little bit more than developing neg film the standard way with a contact print or proofs. I've used them on a couple of occasions, and the results were worth it.

 

[jibanes]

I'm very intersted about making my own contact sheet, how can I really do that without a darkroom, there's got to be a way, I'm not looking for great results, just an easy way to look at which negative I want to end up enlarging...

 

[mgd711]

Contact printing, onto paper, will still require a darkroom, light tight cupboard or large tent. Then you will have to develop the paper.

I'm assuming you don't have a scanner?

 

[jibanes]

Contact printing, onto paper, will still require a darkroom, light tight cupboard or large tent. Then you will have to develop the paper.

I'm assuming you don't have a scanner?

I do not have a scanner, I have a bathroom I can use, if you could provide me a quick recipe, what bulb, duration, paper type (brand+model) developper then that's all I need I guess?

 

[mgd711]

I scan all my film Jerome, somebody else will have to answer those questions for you.

 

[jibanes]

Maybe it's possible, simply to look at negative to use something like a business card scanner or something cheap and similar? Maybe with output to TV?

 

[loquax ludens]

I've never tried this, but you can use Ultrafine Continuous Tone Duplication Film to make positives (slides) from negatives, or duplicate negatives. It is said to be similar to the old Kodak SO-132 duplicating film. You can contact print it or enlarge it. It's often used to make enlarged duplicate negatives for contact printing with alternate processes like pt/pd. It's only available in sheets, and it is quite inexpensive.

Based on some googling, I believe you can contact print it from your original negative, then develop in Dektol for a direct positive. If true, then that would be a very simple process. Reportedly you can process under a standard safelight. A bathroom should do fine.

Of course, if you are working with small negatives, it would perhaps be more useful to enlarge onto this film so you can get a larger slide. You should still be able to get away with this in a bathroom if you have a suitably compact enlarger.

I've used the process described in this article by Bob Herbst published originally in View Camera Magazine, and available online at Unblinkingeye, Enlarged Negatives Using APHS Ortho Film and Pyro Developer. It is a bit more complex than using the duplication film. I didn't have APHS Ortho Film, so I used Kodak type 3 Ortho film, which is not really a good substitute since it's a not a continuous tone film. It produces a very high contrast result.

 

[jibanes]

I wonder if polaroid film can be modified to make contact sheets?

 

[mgd711]

In your original post you said you wanted to reverse some B&W 120 film, do it without chemistry and do it yourself for cost reason's, but you did not state why you want a B&W positive.

Why do you want a B&W positive?

Where in the world are you?

As I see it you have two options, send it to a lab to do it or find somebody here close to where you live and maybe they will help you.

 

[jibanes]

* Why do you want a B&W positive? Good question, I'm not good at judging which 6x6 slides I would like to have enlarged, so I was hoping that reverting them to positives would help. * Where in the world are you? USA I'm not against the idea of scanning, I don't need a super high quality because the prints would be done from the negatives. Is there a cheap quick and dirty 120 scanner? Like, even a business card scanner might work you know... (well I hope so). I don't have much room at home for anything much bigger anyway.

 

[mgd711]

There is probably cheaper than this but it's a starting point...

Canon 5600F

 

[tlitody]

since you have the negatives they must have been developed somewhere. Next timne you get some developed ask for contact prints with them. Costs a little extra but worth it.
And you can take the negs you have and ask the lab to contact print those too.