lynnb
Veteran
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica_m9_monochrom.shtml
"...It was really difficult to differentiate between it and prints that I was making at the same time taken with the 36 Megapixel Nikon D800E."
Also, high iso noise texture samples.
"...It was really difficult to differentiate between it and prints that I was making at the same time taken with the 36 Megapixel Nikon D800E."
Also, high iso noise texture samples.
BobYIL
Well-known
I bought perhaps 30 Leicas since 1963, still have almost half, always with no more than double of what a Nikon SLR costs, new or used. Imagine I paid $232 for a new 35/1.4 Summilux while a roll of Tri-X was $1.30. Leica has never been cheap but also never been over the stratosphere like they are these years. The last tabbed version of Summicron I bought mint in box for $460 in 1999; with today's dollars $654. Today I feel ashamed of paying $2000 for a mint in box 50/2 lens.
mrrobleyleica
Member
The dynamic range of the M9 mono and other technical details are not that interesting to every Leica buyer. The 'fondlers' as the are called will stick it in a safe place and occasionally stroke it on birthdays and at christmas.
I don't know if this is going to be a limited production camera or not, but Leica have been bold, but I wonder if it will ever be repeated. I can imagine the M10 would have as good ISO performance or better, if Nikon / Canon and so on can do it why not Leica? Okay - we know they can't / won't, but it should be significantly better than the M9.
I think Leica obviously want to at least try to tempt die hard B&W M6/7 users to move to digital, not just to kill film off, but because they can make a few Euros at the same time (if we have Euros by the time it ships). I moved away from film because the film I love isn't made. Saying you'd rather buy a half ton of tri-x is fine for some - I loved it, but not all the time!
The quality of mono images from Aperture 3 and LR 4 is a big improvement over the early days, so surely this will move on and make even the most ardent film lover think digital. Maybe there's denial, as much as film has had a slight come back, it will not be around forever?
I'm looking forward to some more samples and real world use, I gather there will be more revealed tomorrow on the Leica site. Anyway, I'm very interested in one as I could use a Voigtlander 15mm with no colour shift. Think of the savings!
I don't know if this is going to be a limited production camera or not, but Leica have been bold, but I wonder if it will ever be repeated. I can imagine the M10 would have as good ISO performance or better, if Nikon / Canon and so on can do it why not Leica? Okay - we know they can't / won't, but it should be significantly better than the M9.
I think Leica obviously want to at least try to tempt die hard B&W M6/7 users to move to digital, not just to kill film off, but because they can make a few Euros at the same time (if we have Euros by the time it ships). I moved away from film because the film I love isn't made. Saying you'd rather buy a half ton of tri-x is fine for some - I loved it, but not all the time!
The quality of mono images from Aperture 3 and LR 4 is a big improvement over the early days, so surely this will move on and make even the most ardent film lover think digital. Maybe there's denial, as much as film has had a slight come back, it will not be around forever?
I'm looking forward to some more samples and real world use, I gather there will be more revealed tomorrow on the Leica site. Anyway, I'm very interested in one as I could use a Voigtlander 15mm with no colour shift. Think of the savings!
BobYIL
Well-known
To use your Voigtlander 15mm with no colour shift you'll buy an M9M... And you call it savings? Hmmmm.. before doing it how about trying the same lens on another camera by shooting B&W?
(Now I'm convinced that Leica will always survive, no doubt..)
dreamsandart
Well-known
Leica did something no one else would, it took guts. If you are a B&W shooter it gives you what you want in a digital M-body. If you think about the new prices of a Leica MP and the fact the M9 Monochrome has variable ISO settings with compact and high capacity cards with no film processing costs, high ISO without noise, and very high quality (detail / DR), it looks pretty good.
As for the 50 APO Summicron, for a price you have the 'best' 50 ever made. Paired with the Monochrome M9 if gives medium format quality in a very compact form factor. All stops (pun) pulled at a price.
As always with Leica - if you have the money… I can't complain, probably not equipment I can justify myself, but for some lucky folks…
I don't think Leica intents to sell a million or even close to that, but its there, and I'm sure they have a better idea than me if these are going to be justified as a money making venture.
As for the 50 APO Summicron, for a price you have the 'best' 50 ever made. Paired with the Monochrome M9 if gives medium format quality in a very compact form factor. All stops (pun) pulled at a price.
As always with Leica - if you have the money… I can't complain, probably not equipment I can justify myself, but for some lucky folks…
I don't think Leica intents to sell a million or even close to that, but its there, and I'm sure they have a better idea than me if these are going to be justified as a money making venture.
DRabbit
Registered
LOL, your reply made me come out of the woodwork!
I've had my M8 for nearly 5 years now. I've shot about 12,000 photos with it.
I also still have my lovely Zeiss Ikon shooting B&W film -- and developing it in my bathroom (thanks to folks here). It costs me about $2.00 per roll.
I'd have to shoot 4000 rolls (or like 144,000 photos) to be near the cost of the M9M. That's a whole lot of film.
Think I'll stick with buying in bricks for now... if I had a bazillion dollars in the bank I'd buy an M9M just to check it out, but for now my "inferior" color sensors and B&W rolls of film will have to do.
I will say... I've finally come to the very sad realization that I'll likely never buy a Leica again. I'm just not financially in their demographic anymore. Actually I probably never was.
Yeah, I think many of us are feeling the same way.
FrozenInTime
Well-known
rsosa
Established
after reading the M9 monochrom price tag I instantly hugged my M2 and M4... they will be with me for a long long time...
rodt16s
Well-known
The mono only interests me as B&W is my bag.. the price is what it is..tough.
I'm guessing the images I've seen so far are taken with the new $$ 50mm,
But I wonder how the M9-M and older lenses will look. if it is optimised with the modern glasses then it will definitely be difficult to justify.
I'm guessing the images I've seen so far are taken with the new $$ 50mm,
But I wonder how the M9-M and older lenses will look. if it is optimised with the modern glasses then it will definitely be difficult to justify.
BobYIL
Well-known
You need neither the M9M nor the new Summicron after achieving that style. (Just MHO..)
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I think this Leica monochrome model is a good idea.
Harry Lime
Practitioner
Someone on the Leica forum posted that based on the base iso of 320 it should have a one stop advantage over the standard M9.
It appears that the Monochrom uses a modified version of the current M9 CCD sensor. I assume the main difference is the lack of the bayer filter. Everything else seems to be the same.
A one stop jump is an improvement, but given that the M9 does not exactly excel in this department it's not a home run either.
But it is very, very sharp.
Basset
Member
[Edited] I am sure it will be a wonderful camera for some users.
This is just one stop more sensitivity, however...not necessarily more DR.
It's the same sensor as the M9, so I have my doubts about 12-14 stops.
Sharp, no question. But as you pointed out elsewhere, B&W isn't necessarily about sharpness...
ramosa
B&W
No worries in that regard; skip the Monochrom and go for the Hermes at 20k euro.
starless
Well-known
Absolutely worthless camera. I don't see the point.
For £6120 ($10,000) you could get:
Leica M6: $1200
Minolta 5400 scanner: $500
570+ rolls of Tri-x incl. development : $8,300
(assuming a roll of film would cost you 10$ to develop)
So now you have a camera which will not be obsolete in a year, possibly more reliable than the M9 and on top of that you can take REAL black and white photographs.
For £6120 ($10,000) you could get:
Leica M6: $1200
Minolta 5400 scanner: $500
570+ rolls of Tri-x incl. development : $8,300
(assuming a roll of film would cost you 10$ to develop)
So now you have a camera which will not be obsolete in a year, possibly more reliable than the M9 and on top of that you can take REAL black and white photographs.
tstermitz
Well-known
Is this still using a CCD "Kodak" Sensor!? How can that keep up with the CMOS advances?
Reichman at LuLa explains the benefits in a clear way. Apparently the effective resolution improvement is due to having all photosites measure luminance, not just the green ones. He shows ISO 10,000 image that has noise, but it looks pleasant enough, like film grain. He does comment that the MM still retains many of the M9 shortcomings: slow write speed, low-rez screen.
I can't justify the price, personally, but the high price won't devalue the rest of my Leica investments.
It seems to me a better profit margin would come by offering lower-priced bodies in order to sell the high-priced lenses.
Reichman at LuLa explains the benefits in a clear way. Apparently the effective resolution improvement is due to having all photosites measure luminance, not just the green ones. He shows ISO 10,000 image that has noise, but it looks pleasant enough, like film grain. He does comment that the MM still retains many of the M9 shortcomings: slow write speed, low-rez screen.
I can't justify the price, personally, but the high price won't devalue the rest of my Leica investments.
It seems to me a better profit margin would come by offering lower-priced bodies in order to sell the high-priced lenses.
ampguy
Veteran
Great idea. I hope it does well.
Reminds me of the espresso only LM shot brewer, and Synesso Skeleton (prototype). If you don't need milk, simplify and optimize the machine for brewing.
Reminds me of the espresso only LM shot brewer, and Synesso Skeleton (prototype). If you don't need milk, simplify and optimize the machine for brewing.