New "M" body or Mamiya 7II

[Topdog1]

If ultimate image quality with the benfits of a rangefinder system is your goal, why wouldn't you buy a MF rangefinder system like the Mamiya 7II instead of a new "M" body - or in my case, another M body?

I have a Leica IIIf, 2 M3s (ss and ds), and 1 M4. (Help me someone.) Somehow or other I have it in my head that I need a new MP. However, the more pratical side of me says that I should get a MF rangefinder, like the Mamiya 7II, to explore the ultimate quality a MF rangefinder can provide.

I know the MF body and lens is much larger than the Lecia body and lens, but that's not the issue. I already have a number of M bodies and lenses for that. Why isn't there more interest in the MF rangefinder system, since highest quality seems to be a major objective of rangefinder users?

regards,
Ira

 

[venchka]

Todd.Hanz can answer your questions. He shoots both M and Mamiya 7. Quite well I might add.

 

[Nachkebia]

Negative you going to get with Mamiya 7ii is unbeatable even with most expsensive leica lenses, tell you more, it wont even come close 😀

 

[f8&go]

I rented an 7II some years back. Don't remember it all but
a swell camera. Not heavy, quietest shutter, big bright viewfinder.

To answer your question, I don't think most folks want to carry the
extra size, pay more in film & processing for lots of mediocre shots
and miss out on the glamour of a Leica. Long way of saying
that most are not interested in the greater (technical) image quality.

It could be argued that the 7II is more fragile than a Leica but
then most Leica users baby their equipment anyway.

Just got my first Leica and Love it, so I am not anti-Leica.
Will get a 7II if I can before they shovel the dirt in my face.

 

[hth]

If you are going to scan, you might want/need to get a more expensive scanner compared to what you use for 35mm. In my case I can scan a strip of 35mm compared to single MF each time I do a scan.
You also have to do without fast lenses.

Ignoring such issues, if you are into picture quality, go for the Mamiya, you will not be disappointed. Slides are simply wonderful.

The Mamiya 7ii is a bit bigger than a Leica, but not clumsy. With a 80mm lens, it is actually very portable and can be handheld easily. I do not think it is much heavier either, but I have not checked that, and it depends on what lens(es) you use.

/Håkan

 

[kevin m]

I've been tempted by the Mamiya 7, too, but for general purpose photography, I still think a 35mm rangefinder is a better choice. Not only is f4.0 the fastest lens in the Mamiya line-up, but the depth of field is quite shallow despite the slow aperture.

 

[Topdog1]

I already have an Epson flatbed scanner so that will work for both MF and 35mm. Also, why can't I scan a strip of MF negatives or slides, if I just ask to have the slides processed and not mounted?

regards,
Ira

 

[Todd.Hanz]

If ultimate image quality with the benfits of a rangefinder system is your goal, why wouldn't you buy a MF rangefinder system like the Mamiya 7II instead of a new "M" body - or in my case, another M body?

I have a Leica IIIf, 2 M3s (ss and ds), and 1 M4. (Help me someone.) Somehow or other I have it in my head that I need a new MP. However, the more pratical side of me says that I should get a MF rangefinder, like the Mamiya 7II, to explore the ultimate quality a MF ranefinder can provide.

I know the MF body and lens is much larger than the Lecia body and lens, but that's not the issue. I already have a number of M bodies and lenses for that. Why isn't there more interest in the MF ranefinder system, since ultimately quality seems to be a major objective of rangefinder users?

regards,
Ira

I agree, though it sounds like you have talked yourself into one already 😉

Leica glass can give you close to MF quality and sharpness but the expanded tonal range of MF added to the sharpness and detail blows 35mm out of the water.

I think that the size difference, number of exposures, etc. is still why many prefer 35mm in the rangefinder world. The M7II isn't that much bigger than a Leica M but you're not going to slip it into a jacket pocket. The 6x7 format is a little wonky and hard to get used to for some, but I've grown to like it.

There are some quirks, as with any system, the M7II doesn't allow close focusing, most portraits will be 3/4 length at best (of course with the larger negative you can crop away). The camera is somewhat light weight when compared to a Leica M, but it feels well built. The lenses are slow in comparison to 35mm, most being f4 at the widest.

I'd recommend it to anyone looking to get into MF. The lenses are spectacular with excellent sharpness and smooooth bokeh. The huge negatives really pop on a light table, here are a few samples taken with the 80/4 lens.

wide open at f4:

at f11

good luck,
Todd

 

[dazedgonebye]

Buy-in price might have something to do with the (relative) lack of interest in MF rangefinders.
I'd love to have a Mamiya 7, but the camera and three lens kit would cost what...$4k or so? If you're buying Leica, that's a viable alternative, but if you're on the cheap like me, you have to find other ways of satisfying your rangefinder urges.

So, as a person who's never owned either Leica or Mamiya rangefinders...If I had the money, I'd have the Mamiya.

Now I'm depressed. I think I'll go fondle my Fed-2.

 

[Todd.Hanz]

I already have an Epson flatbed scanner so that will work for both MF and 35mm. Also, why can't I scan a strip of MF negatives or slides, if I just ask to have the slides processed and not mounted?

regards,
Ira

all of the pics I posted are scanned on an archaic epson 2450 flatbed (I know I should buy something better, but each time I get alittle money another lens gets in the way 🙂).

most flatbeds really suck at scanning slides, at least mine have, so you'll pay a good bit for a hi-rez scan of your 6x7 slides. You can also do like me and just get scans of the good stuff.

good luck,
Todd

 

[Topdog1]

Todd,
Yowie! Now that,'s the kind of quality I'm looking for. I have talked myself into a 7ii, I'm just hoping I won't regret forgoing the MP "experience".

Regards,
Ira

 

[v3cron]

i shoot with a mamiya 6 system and a fuji gw670. i'm buying into leica now because it looks totally different. "quality" is really a non-concept photographically - mf is smooth and realistic, but that's not always desirable. 35mm can give a look you could not easily achieve with a big negative.

 

[Kyle]

Buy-in price might have something to do with the (relative) lack of interest in MF rangefinders.
I'd love to have a Mamiya 7, but the camera and three lens kit would cost what...$4k or so? If you're buying Leica, that's a viable alternative, but if you're on the cheap like me, you have to find other ways of satisfying your rangefinder urges.

So, as a person who's never owned either Leica or Mamiya rangefinders...If I had the money, I'd have the Mamiya.

Now I'm depressed. I think I'll go fondle my Fed-2.

Don't forget there's the Mamiya 6, which is similar to the 7(II) except it uses the 6x6 format and uses different lenses. The entire Mamiya 6 kit cost me something like $1200. Thats body, plus 50mm, 75mm, and 150mm lenses. Admittedly, I scored some really sweet deals when I got mine, but you can still piece it all together for maybe $300-400 more even if you're an impatient buyer.

Mine doesn't get used much, due to size (doesn't fit in my jacket) and lack of fast lenses. I process my own B&W and have easy access to C41 and slide processing, so thats not the issue. Although scanning can be an issue. Luckily, I just picked up a Besseler 23CII which is capable of printing up to 6x9, so hopefully I'll be using it more often!

 

[Topdog1]

Steve,

You can get a new 7ii with 80mm lens for around $2K. That's less than the buy-in price for any new M body alone. Besides, as you point out, people who buy new Leicas are not exactly price sensitive.

Regards,
Ira

 

[Kyle]

Todd,
Yowie! Now that,'s the kind of quality I'm looking for. I have talked myself into a 7ii, I'm just hoping I won't regret forgoing the MP "experience".

Regards,
Ira

Ira, perhaps get a used Mamiya 6 and a used MP, and then you can have your cake and eat it too, as they say. 🙂

 

[Todd.Hanz]

kyle,
I really like the Mamiya 6/ 50mm combo, the size is perfect for carrying on the street and of course it shoots well too.

Todd

 

[FrankS]

If you don't have a MF camera yet you should get one.

 

[Topdog1]

What's the difference bewteen a Mamiya 6 and a Mamiya 7?

Regards,
Ira

 

[v3cron]

The entire Mamiya 6 kit cost me something like $1200. Thats body, plus 50mm, 75mm, and 150mm lenses.

GEEZ!!!! that is insanely cheap. i paid $2000 for body, 75, and 50.

 

[v3cron]

What's the difference bewteen a Mamiya 6 and a Mamiya 7?

Regards,
Ira

format (6x6 vs 6x7) is the primary difference. also, the 6 is collapsible and a bit more solid-feeling. some have complained that the 7 is cheap by comparison, and that the rangefinder isn't as stable, but i've never used a 7. google "mamiya 6" and you'll get quite a bit of good info and high praise.