New range of Leica cameras .

[Jack Sparrow]

The hybrid VF of the Fuji X-Pro 1 shows what can be done; with the same benefits (and shortcomings) of an optical rangefinder. Considering just how good EVFs are these days (and only getting better)... Leica would be fool not to explore these avenues.

 

[JoeV]

tell me again why i cant 'scale focus' on a camera with auto focus capability? i thought i had been doing that, but i guess ive been wrong.

Only if your lenses have actual focusing scales. Adapting legacy MF lenses can be one way, but few new AF lenses have actual focusing scales; none of my AF lenses do.

~Joe

 

[semi-ambivalent]

Yes, they should rush forward and produce another also-ran mirrorless EVF AF camera and get annihilated in a price war with their Japanese competitors. I really look forward to shooting street photography...

That's a good point, but let me ask this: The whole HCB/Street Thing occupies an enormous part of the Leica world view. But is there any real, empirical data indicating just what are the predominant shooting 'styles' of Leica's customers? Is Leica being held to a historic mannerism that not only no longer represents the bulk of its customers but actually hurts its marketplace performance by forcing it to adhere to design aspects that are detrimental to future viability? What if those retired dentists and their Noctilux's golfing images really are the ones saving the company? Why should street shooters be calling the shots any more than they?

Let me add that I like Leica RFs a lot and I like using them. If I didn't I also have a few Nikons and a slew of lenses I could be using, but I prefer the RF these days and am not likely to change back.

I'll add here a shout-out to Wetzlar to say I could sell all of my Nikkors and not have enough money to buy a single new 35mm Summilux FLE. Take from that what you will. 😉

s-a

 

[YYV_146]

That's a good point, but let me ask this: The whole HCB/Street Thing occupies an enormous part of the Leica world view. But is there any real, empirical data indicating just what are the predominant shooting 'styles' of Leica's customers? Is Leica being held to a historic mannerism that not only no longer represents the bulk of its customers but actually hurts its marketplace performance by forcing it to adhere to design aspects that are detrimental to future viability? What if those retired dentists and their Noctilux's golfing images really are the ones saving the company? Why should street shooters be calling the shots any more than they?

Let me add that I like Leica RFs a lot and I like using them. If I didn't I also have a few Nikons and a slew of lenses I could be using, but I prefer the RF these days and am not likely to change back.

I'll add here a shout-out to Wetzlar to say I could sell all of my Nikkors and not have enough money to buy a single new 35mm Summilux FLE. Take from that what you will. 😉

s-a

I would have thought if HCB lived today and worked in a similar fashion, he'd use something with an articulate screen since so many of his shots are not from eye-level...

...or maybe he would use a cellphone, since that's the easiest way to get candid shots these days (by quite a large margin).

 

[rbelyell]

Only if your lenses have actual focusing scales. Adapting legacy MF lenses can be one way, but few new AF lenses have actual focusing scales; none of my AF lenses do.

~Joe

and since you were originally talking about the impossibility of replicating the speed of scale focusing M lenses, my question was why you couldnt replicate it just because the camera youre shooting it on has AF capability? still dont know why, because the answer is you can. your original point did not make sense.

and btw there are AF lenses that have distance scales on them. not many, but they exist.

 

[taemo]

I would have thought if HCB lived today and worked in a similar fashion, he'd use something with an articulate screen since so many of his shots are not from eye-level...

...or maybe he would use a cellphone, since that's the easiest way to get candid shots these days (by quite a large margin).

this i didn't know, would you mind linking some of his shots not taken from eye level.
i would have assumed that HCB would be anal about his composition and using viewfinders since he's not a fan of cropping.

 

[Michael Markey]

Whenever I `ve been in a Leica dealership I`ve never heard a customer mention an RF.
Not once.

Indeed they often don`t know very much about the cameras at all but only seem to be attracted to the brand.

They invariably leave with one of the DLux series or the X series thinking the M far too complicated.

I think we tend to overestimate the importance of the rangefinder system .

The general public want a luxury brand with af.
The keen amateur is shooting something else entirely on cost grounds .

 

[YYV_146]

this i didn't know, would you mind linking some of his shots not taken from eye level.
i would have assumed that HCB would be anal about his composition and using viewfinders since he's not a fan of cropping.

That was the impression I got from a few photo books he made. My take is that he likes to be on the same plane of the subject.

He seems to pay attention to working from lower perspectives when the frame involves children...although his most famous "child" picture is clearly an eye-level shot.

 

[jsrockit]

I would have thought if HCB lived today and worked in a similar fashion, he'd use something with an articulate screen since so many of his shots are not from eye-level...

Perhaps he crouched down... ?

 

[aizan]

there is no longer any downside to scale focusing with af lenses. as leica has shown with the q, an af lens can have a focusing scale AND and focusing tab. they will presumably include these critical features on the lenses for this new range.

 

[Ben Z]

Have You looked at Dslr lenses recently?

Only the ones I own. Ruling out f/2.8 zooms, as there are none in the M system to compare, the primes I own are not much bigger than the current crop of fast M lenses, and most are significantly lighter. My EOS EF 85/1.8 for example is roughly the same size as my 90 Summicron-M but noticeably lighter. My EOS 28/2.8 is the same size as my Leica Elmarit, but again, significantly lighter. My EOS 35/2 and 50/1.8 are noticeably larger than my 35 and 50 Summicron-Ms but weigh about the same. All those aforementioned EF lenses, despite their so-called plasticky construction, have performed flawlessly for a decade and a half and show no signs of deterioration. So I guess I'm not seeing your point.

 

[majid]

Sony's lead in sensor tech is far ahead of anyone else right now. I strongly doubt any other company can leapfrog their output and tech specs.

Therefore I don't give a lot of credence to that part of the rumour.

The STMicro process used for the M240 sensor is actually more advanced than the one used in Sony sensor fabs. The limiting factor is the first-gen CMOSIS sensor design, more specifically the full-well capacity, which constrains dynamic range and to a lesser extent noise. Here is the considered opinion of Eric Fossum, the inventor of the CMOS sensor:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52242795
Clearly there is a path for improvement, with more room for enhancement than Sony has. Even with its flaws, the M240 sensor is already better than anything Canon has.

I honestly believe if they want to grow their market, they need to make the M system more affordable otherwise people will go Fuji or Sony.

There is no way Leica can ever compete on price with Fuji or Sony, let alone Canon or Nikon. That ship sailed away 50 years ago. The only way they can compete is as a high-end niche supplier, and of course a luxury brand.

 

[mfunnell]

Have You looked at Dslr lenses recently?

I've been enjoying the teeny-tiny size of my ultra-compact SLR lenses lately...

...Mike

P.S. Sarcasm aside, though, I can fit my M240 and 28, 35 and 50mm lenses easily in the same small bag that is a very tight fit for a 5D and 50mm plus 24mm lens. While the size difference isn't huge, it is enough to have an effect.

 

[jarski]

There is no way Leica can ever compete on price with Fuji or Sony, let alone Canon or Nikon. That ship sailed away 50 years ago. The only way they can compete is as a high-end niche supplier, and of course a luxury brand.

with their new factory, and more product launches (besides this rumour), looks like their capabilities are growing from mere boutique artisan camera maker. I bet Leica's will always be expensive, but hopefully not so damn expensive like currently.

 

[Fraser]

'Even with its flaws, the M240 sensor is already better than anything Canon'. I can't believe that every sensor leica launches is already out of date before it hits the streets. Maybe at base ISO not even sure about that now that they no longer use ccd.
Don't get me wrong I love my m9, but with smaller full frame dslr at a fraction of the price it will probably be the last leica digital body I buy.

 

[Michael Markey]

Don't get me wrong I love my m9, but with smaller full frame dslr at a fraction of the price it will probably be the last leica digital body I buy.

Well yes there are plenty more cost effective options out there now.

A lot of the small ,quite and unobtrusive arguments in favour of the brand are just harking back to a previous age .

However I still find them a pleasure to use.

 

[leicapixie]

The new Leica-Q offers an idea of what and how it, the new system,
may be..
To date no one has commented on the "Q" lens..
Leica has never built a f1.7 lens.
Who did?. Design and or construction.
A fellow photographer said Leica may need another company to do it.
He was of opinion it was Pentax-Ricoh who did the lens..

 

[Harry Lime]

You can absolutely do that with an EVF camera. The longest lag by far in modern SLR cameras is the mirror clearance. And people seem to work with DSLRs for sports and action all the time.

EVF lag from something like the A7 isn't even on the same order of magnitude. This coupled with an electronic shutter system allows for extremely fast capturing of motion. I can use a manual lens and track a moving object through the frame of a EVF. How many photographers are capable of doing that with an optical rangefinder window?

I'm sorry, but there isn't an EVF on the market that does not lag. They have improved but they still aren't fast enough to keep up with a shooter raising the camera to his eye in a split second to grab a shot. Look at how fast Winograd is moving the camera in that clip.

Sports photography is different. It's more of a controlled situation. You are tracking the action continuously and grabbing images out of a constant stream of movement. That's not the same as having to frame an individual shot on the move and closeup as fast as you can raise your arms, before the instant disappears.

And you're not limited to the center of frame at all. I can focus lock and then recompose multiple times with the same subject. I can also disengage the AF and shutter and use a wider lock area. Center-point is for DSLRs where only one or a few points are actually fully functional. With mirrorless bodies the entire sensor is AF-capable.

With a lot of street photography there is no time to focus and recompose. Scale focusing is at the heart of the discipline and what made a lot of the famous photographs even possible. The rise of AF has changed the way a lot of current street photo graph is framed, the moment that is now photographed and the subject matter. And the change has not been for the better. We have gone from shots like the girl with the ice cream cone from Winogrand or HCB's puddle jumper to people interacting with subway posters.

 

[Harry Lime]

tell me again why i cant 'scale focus' on a camera with auto focus capability? i thought i had been doing that, but i guess ive been wrong.

You can scale focus with an AF lens, but it's more difficult than with a manual focus lens, because the focus throw is much shorter and a lot of the manufacturers have removed the distance scales. You can still do it, but now its a PIA.

 

[mdarnton]

I can't see Leica making the Camera We Want until the type is virtually obsolete. That's been their style for years. Anyone remember the excitement around here about the DLux, which many predicted would be an advanced digital somewhat along the line of the Sony Nex 7 and turned out to be a very expensive point-and-shoot? I'm predicting a repeat of history, based on history.