New Xtol not the same

2wenty

2wenty

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May 13, 2013
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Well, this kinda sucks.

The new repackaged Xtol is not the same. I developed 3 different rolls last night, each were developed separate from each other and all were massively underdeveloped, extremely thin both in stock and 1:1 form.

The A side of the package has a weird consistency now.

I just doubled checked on the new and old packaging to see if the times are different now and they are still the same.

After finding this out, I searched around to see if anyone else has come across this yet and it appears that someone has left a review on B&H saying the exact same thing.

It also appears that all of Kodak stuff is new packaging so Im assuming everything is different now.

Super disappointed.

Now I have to find an old batch to make this project match.
 
Kodak has moved production of their chemicals away from Tetenal due to the bankruptcy. Despite what we are told, Tetenal is in serious trouble and so Kodak had to move their chemical production back to the US. Why this has not gone smoothly is hard to understand.
 
That sounds horrible and I don't understand how that could pass QC. I also don't understand why you ruined two more rolls after the first one... In any case I'd give Fomadon Excel a chance if you can get your hands on it, it's said to be identical to Xtol, it sure works for me and is available in 1l packs.
 
2wenty said:
Well, this kinda sucks.

The new repackaged Xtol is not the same. I developed 3 different rolls last night, each were developed separate from each other and all were massively underdeveloped, extremely thin both in stock and 1:1 form.

The A side of the package has a weird consistency now.

I just doubled checked on the new and old packaging to see if the times are different now and they are still the same.

After finding this out, I searched around to see if anyone else has come across this yet and it appears that someone has left a review on B&H saying the exact same thing.

It also appears that all of Kodak stuff is new packaging so Im assuming everything is different now.

Super disappointed.

Now I have to find an old batch to make this project match.
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The old Xtol had a reputation for suddenly "going bad" (greatly losing activity) with the symptoms which you describe here. This happened to me.

I stopped buying the packaged Xtol and now make up Mytol as I need it.
 
I wonder if all Kodak chemicals are now of substandard quality. Everyone has been reformulated for manufacturing in the US.
 
Ted Striker said:
I wonder if all Kodak chemicals are now of substandard quality. Everyone has been reformulated for manufacturing in the US.
Click to expand...
The sad thing is that for a century Kodak chemicals were made in the US and were good. The reason they were good wasn't that that they were American-Made. They were good because Kodak made them.

Some time ago (ten years?) Kodak decided to stop making chemicals, though they did continue to sell chemicals. Manufacture was outsourced; first to an American company called Champion and later to Tetanal. Each change brought new packaging and who knows what changes to the chemicals themselves. The product was never quite the same in my opinion.

The whole thing is an example of how Kodak's idiot management managed to ruin a once-great business. Kodak was a chemical company above all else. Film manufacturing is basically a basically a business for chemical companies, and so Kodak also made industrial chemicals in addition to photographic chemicals. They've gotten out of that business. Imagine how stupid it would be if General Motors or Toyota suddenly stopped making automobiles and started making cat food instead...then imagine the management was completely oblivious to why they're no longer selling cars! That's Kodak today.
 
IIIg said:
The old Xtol had a reputation for suddenly "going bad" (greatly losing activity) with the symptoms which you describe here. This happened to me.

I stopped buying the packaged Xtol and now make up Mytol as I need it.
Click to expand...


I have heard about it ("sudden death") but never experienced myself - I normally prepare 5L stock which I "consume" in a bit less than a year (maybe 9 months or so) with no issues. I still have maybe 5 packs of old formula XTOL, so I hope I'm "covered" for another 3-4 years...
 
Back to D-76. Been around forever and every company knows how to make it. Good developer also. Biggest advantage to me of Xtol was it seemed to last forever.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
The whole thing is an example of how Kodak's idiot management managed to ruin a once-great business. Kodak was a chemical company above all else. Film manufacturing is basically a basically a business for chemical companies, and so Kodak also made industrial chemicals in addition to photographic chemicals. They've gotten out of that business. Imagine how stupid it would be if General Motors or Toyota suddenly stopped making automobiles and started making cat food instead...then imagine the management was completely oblivious to why they're no longer selling cars! That's Kodak today.
Click to expand...
Yes, Kodak is run by an appalling group of bean counters. It's amazing that they are still around after making one epic mistake after another. So many unforced errors by Kodak. Where's the new Super 8mm camera announced YEARS ago? Vaporware. Where are the Kodak Coins announced YEARS ago. Vaporware.

Remember Eastman Chemical? Kodak's large scale chemical company? Kodak sold it off and then went bankrupt. Eastman Chemical continues to this day being nicely profitable. Freed from Kodak's blithering management team, they prospered.
 
The "Sudden Death Xtol" was real but very limited. I was among the first to use Xtol and definitely among the very first to report to my area Kodak rep (ah remember those days?) this issue since all of Kodak's chemistry came to Hawaii via boat; it took a (relatively) long time over water and that seemed to increase the potential for moisture to enter into the Part A in the 1 liter size with the packaging that Kodak *first* used. As I was switching my photo business to use what I still think is a really good developer I stuck with Xtol and noted all the packaging and manufacture changes. After the 1 liter was discontinued that particular type of 'sudden death' stopped, unless the user was daft enough to mix from tap water with old rusty pipes; the Fenton reaction with Iron in the water caused another form of failure, which was solved by the common sense practice of mixing with filtered or distilled water.

I am very curious as to the OP mention of the Part A having a 'different texture'. This very well could point to another moisture barrier failure in the packaging. My standard advice with Xtol is to first make sure both parts are actually powder; any obvious change from a powder raises suspicions (as you would with seeing Dektol or Metol based developers look very dark or black before mixing). The other is mixing with distilled water. With those two very simple and obvious precautions Xtol works as intended and any photographer who can't observe those basic photography concepts should not process film and should also stay away from butter knives and scissors.
I am not ruling out a screw up in the packaging from whoever is making the stuff now. But unless those two easy rules are not clearly observed then User Error should be considered as the "failure".
 
XTOL is quite interesting although I have used it only once or twice given the bulk of 5L, when there's a camera club developing pool.
Otherwise I've been using HC110 which is lasting long and proving to be an excellent developer, holding a quite full bottle of Tetenal made HC110. Shall see the reformulation or something else once I run out of it.

retinax said:
In any case I'd give Fomadon Excel a chance if you can get your hands on it, it's said to be identical to Xtol, it sure works for me and is available in 1l packs.
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Excel I haven't heard too much about, I've often wondered about it but always forget to order some. Some recollections around the web is that it's an XTOL equivalent and perhaps not as fine grained. 1L is much more manageable for more occasional shooting.
I batch up color film for lab send outs or development that it's nice how convenient concentrate developers are for spontaneous use.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
They changed HC-110 too, so it may not have that legendary shelf life anymore
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Yes, good point. I forgot about that. In fact, I grabbed 2 liters of the old stuff while it was still on the shelf. I have one just recently opened liter of HC-110 and 2 in reserve. Enough to last several lifetimes as I shoot at most 1-2 rolls of film per quarter. Not like the old days when I shot 10-15 per week.
 
retinax said:
That sounds horrible and I don't understand how that could pass QC. I also don't understand why you ruined two more rolls after the first one... In any case I'd give Fomadon Excel a chance if you can get your hands on it, it's said to be identical to Xtol, it sure works for me and is available in 1l packs.
Click to expand...

The way I agitate always boarders on underdeveloped, so I couldnt tell if it was me or the rolls were expired or there was something wrong with the cameras. The first roll kinda made it through. Much respect Fomapan, it came out pretty much useable. The delta3200 I shot and developed at 800 was non existent also tmax400 did horrible. The only shots that came out half way were the ones where I used flash.
 
IIIg said:
The old Xtol had a reputation for suddenly "going bad" (greatly losing activity) with the symptoms which you describe here. This happened to me.

I stopped buying the packaged Xtol and now make up Mytol as I need it.
Click to expand...

Ive been using it for 3 years. Each batch I have kept and used for a 1 year period (total of 3 batches). It worked every time and I never even extended developing.
 
2wenty said:
The only shots that came out half way were the ones where I used flash.
Click to expand...

Forgive me, but it seems to me that if something you changed in shooting the film gave better results, that would be generally indicative that the chemicals are not to blame. They can't know which frames you used flash on.

That said, I don't use XTOL due to the sudden death syndrome that I experienced multiple times.

Test, test, test, regardless.
 
Noserider said:
The "Sudden Death Xtol" was real but very limited. I was among the first to use Xtol and definitely among the very first to report to my area Kodak rep (ah remember those days?) this issue since all of Kodak's chemistry came to Hawaii via boat; it took a (relatively) long time over water and that seemed to increase the potential for moisture to enter into the Part A in the 1 liter size with the packaging that Kodak *first* used. As I was switching my photo business to use what I still think is a really good developer I stuck with Xtol and noted all the packaging and manufacture changes. After the 1 liter was discontinued that particular type of 'sudden death' stopped, unless the user was daft enough to mix from tap water with old rusty pipes; the Fenton reaction with Iron in the water caused another form of failure, which was solved by the common sense practice of mixing with filtered or distilled water.

I am very curious as to the OP mention of the Part A having a 'different texture'. This very well could point to another moisture barrier failure in the packaging. My standard advice with Xtol is to first make sure both parts are actually powder; any obvious change from a powder raises suspicions (as you would with seeing Dektol or Metol based developers look very dark or black before mixing). The other is mixing with distilled water. With those two very simple and obvious precautions Xtol works as intended and any photographer who can't observe those basic photography concepts should not process film and should also stay away from butter knives and scissors.
I am not ruling out a screw up in the packaging from whoever is making the stuff now. But unless those two easy rules are not clearly observed then User Error should be considered as the "failure".
Click to expand...


As to the packaging. I went to another store and felt it and its the same chunky cookie dough feeling as mine had. I only ever use distilled for everything except final wash.
 
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