New ZI or used M6-TTL - Which would you buy?

... hold them both in your hands, stroke your fingers along the sides, top and bottom, wind release, wind release, cradkle the camera in your hands, weigh it down, smell it, squeeze it, fondle it ... then if you're not yet satisfied take a close look at the engineering, the manufacturing, the ease of the moveable ojects, ....

M6TTL will come out ....
 
I haven't handled the ZI but I'm loving my M6TTL, it is a real pleasure to handle. I would go with the TTL just based on the larger shutter speed control knob - it handles much better at the eye than my older M4-P. I have had no battery issues and carrying a couple of (tiny) spares in my bag is no problem. Just to mix things up the only lenses I use are the ZM 28mm and 50mm....not exactly a Leica purist.
 
Benjamin Marks said:
George: TTL in this case means TTL flash ONLY with the dedicated Leica Flash. All metering on the M6's is TTL. Thus: a non-TTL M6 (also called the M6 Classic) is an M6 from before circuitry was added for TTL flash. It is slightly shorter (1 or 2 mm) than the M6 TTL and its shutter speed dial rotates in the opposite direction.
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Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. I thought TTL referred to the camera having a built-in light meter (or not!). Flash synchro isn't really an "issue" for me as I only do available light with RF.
 
Get the M6, it'll hold it's value better and you'll never have to wonder if you should have gotten the leica :)

Todd
 
Goodyear said:
Who are we kidding? This is RFF - you will buy both.
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Absolutely NOT. I would NEVER buy both. Why would I do that? Just because I now own a Nikon S2 and a Nikon SP and errr..two Bessa R2S's? :D
 
copake_ham said:
Absolutely NOT. I would NEVER buy both. Why would I do that? Just because I now own a Nikon S2 and a Nikon SP and errr..two Bessa R2S's? :D
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:D :D
That is the way of these things.
 
If you like the cosina cameras there is always the R2M or R3M. It comes with a lens for $1050, and you could always find someone interested in the lens and get a body for around $500...
 
If I had to pick between the two of them?

Leica M6

Why?
- Proven body,
- Proven re-sell value,
- Looks much better than the ZI (extremely subjective of course but this is if *I* had to pick)
 
the only "real" downside to the zeiss ikon is that it doesn't have the "leica feel". i'd happily give that up for the best viewfinder ever. i don't want to deal with the flare-prone rf patch and more high maintenance cloth shutter, either.
 
ARS said:
I would DEFINITELY buy the M6!!!
BECAUSE:

1. IT IS LEICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. I had VERY VERY bad experience with contax G2
3. ZI is overpriced BESSA R3A (I don't trust COSINA, BTW)
4. I don't want my camera to be dead without batteries. M6 works everywhere/everytime
5. Look carefully at the lever that opens the back door!!! Absolutly UNSAFE... You WILL loose your pictures because of it.
6. ZI shutter NOISE!!!
7. Are you still thinking? Run and buy M6

Regards...
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You seem to have some misperceptions:

1. And your point is?

2. The Contax G2 was manufactured by Kyocera. Kyocera no longer manufactures cameras.

3. The ZI is not a Bessa R3A any more than a Nikon F100 is a Nikon N80.

4. I think the battery issue is silly. Batteries are small and light - it's easy to carry a spare. And electronic shutters are more accurate than mechanical shutters.

5. Most people have no issues whatsoever with the latch on the ZI. Are you catching the latch on your spiked jacket or something?

6. ZI shutter noise? Sheesh! All shutters make noise. My Bronica RF645 is probably quieter than a Leica. So what? The Leica is quiet enough (as is the ZI).


7. I bought neither. I like medium and large format negatives.

Enjoy your Leica (or ZI).
 
What Rich said. I use an M6TTL and its a terrific camera. The Zeiss is nice but the ergonomics and size of the M6 do it for me.

 
ARS said:
I would DEFINITELY buy the M6!!!
BECAUSE:

1. IT IS LEICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2. I had VERY VERY bad experience with contax G2
3. ZI is overpriced BESSA R3A (I don't trust COSINA, BTW)
4. I don't want my camera to be dead without batteries. M6 works everywhere/everytime
5. Look carefully at the lever that opens the back door!!! Absolutly UNSAFE... You WILL loose your pictures because of it.
6. ZI shutter NOISE!!!
7. Are you still thinking? Run and buy M6

Regards...
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There are some good arguments for a M6TTL too, depending on the personal preferences tho.

None of them is in this list of Kinderkacke above, based all on hearsay. Enjoy your Leica, but if people ask for advice here , please don't talk about stuff you obviously have no clue off.

Bertram
 
BrianShaw said:
Put an end to this asinine bickering, George... buy BOTH... you're a "man of means"!

:) :cool: :D
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Brian,

So long as it remains on low simmer "bickering" I think we're okay. Folks have mainly kept it civil.

I have no desire to own both and am not of such "means" that I'd ever feel "good" doing so! Heck, if price were not an issue - I'd just buy a NIB M7!

I guess the real problem to me is that whether it is a ZI or M6 (or, for that matter a R2A or R2M etc.) what is going to be the VF configuration of the DM?

I read here a while ago of a 1.3x lens factor. So, what kind of framelines will the DM have?

With the SLRs the lens factor situation is much less of an issue because you can just extrapolate the effetive f/l (giving account for edge compression) and feel fairly confident since the lens view remains m/l WYSIWYG.

But with a RF you have to take into consideration not just what the sensor "sees" but what you see through the VF framelines. If you mount a 50mm Summicron on a DM it will "see" as a 65mm, I think. So what will be the frameline?

It is rather confusing.....
 
I've had an M6 TTL for a few years (so it is used) and I just got a brand new ZI. I would go for the used M6 TTL, but not by a country mile. (I assume prices would be about the same...?)

The M6 feels more solid and has a 30 year service commitment, etc. Also (although I think this factor can be exaggerated) there is still a lot to be said for a camera that has an all-mechanical shutter and can be used by a skilled photographer if there are no batteries in it.
If you're in the field a long way from home and it's your one and only, that's big.

Having said that, the ZI is a fantastic camera, based on just a month or so of use. Very smooth operation. Light but solid. It does have a fine viewfinder. The M6 TTL is of course compatible with virtually all Leica lenses ever made including my weird 135mm f/2.8 Elmarit with the "eyes." The ZI has a long rangefinder base and thus works fine with my Noctilux and other high speed or long lenses, but I don't think it'll work with those eyes.

Do you intend to use the camera for the next 10 to 20 years? I think Leica probably has the advantage. If you think cameras are more expendable and get replaced more often, the ZI might get the nod, especially if the price is greatly in its favor.
 
The only Leica I have is a IIIF, and I've only held the ZI in my hands for 3 minutes at a camera shop.

I'm going through a similar dilemma myself, leica or ZI, that Cameraquest deal is nice.

In the end I'm going to go with a Leica because its what I'm lusting after.

-Mitch
 
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