juananguerrero
Newbie
Rangefinder forum, the most appropriate place to advocate for DSLR 
Gid
Well-known
As a Canon 6D user (as well as Nikon Df, D600 and D610 former user) I am happy to disagree with Nick's assertion that Canon sensors are pants. There is a world of difference between DXO's tests and real world usage and in the real world I've always found Canon's sensors to be just fine (former user of Canon 5D, 5Dii, 40D, 60D). At high ISO the 6D is on par with the Df and better than the D600/D610. Overall, image quality from Nikon or Canon won't let you down and other features should probably drive your brand choice. As I said in my previous post, how lucky are we to have so much choice and at reasonable prices (moot, I know).
CMur12
Veteran
David Hughes
David Hughes
I worry about AI and now I know why...
konicaman
konicaman
Thanks Nick - you made my day
Godfrey
somewhat colored
I guess it must be April Fools Day again already.
NickTrop
Veteran
Thank you. But you should agree with them/me. I am showing youse the way. Nikon D600. DXOmark sensor score -- 94. Price paid -- $650 at big NYC camera retailer -- warranty, return policy, minty, 18,000 acts (just getting broken in...). Reasonbly small -- fairly light, one of the smallest/lightest DSLRs out there. Nikon 50/1.4D. (Rates iirc slightly better the latest 1.4 G -- don't quote. In any case, "around as good as" per DXO). $178, minty. $650 + $178 = $828... for some serious kit.
That's significantly less than a new APS "digital Minolta Vectis 30" -- of whatever stripe (a Fujica Fujifilm X100F for example -- $1300), with some crappy kit zoom lens... or the 1" sensor'd Sony RX100 IV ($900), effectively a glorified cell-phone without the phone.
NickTrop
Veteran
And since everyone likes old cameras around here -- it's even old! Digital cameras are like "dog years". One year for a digital camera = seven years for a film camera. The D600 was released in 2012, six years ago. 6*7= 42. It's like a 42 yo camera, really! Youse'd be right at home!
sepiareverb
genius and moron
My wet print phase shows no signs of abating so I can continue with my measly 8x10 Canham. I do use Nikkor glass on it, so perhaps I’m not entirely lost...
LCSmith
Well-known
This.
I’ve been traveling the past couple weeks and I’ve seen not a few DSLR-men. They’re often wearing basketball shorts and some kind of performance T-shirt and sports sunglasses. They are aiming their daddy-zooms like bazookas at their children, seagulls, blades of grass, empty bottles of cheap Pilsner, whatever. They are the bold mediocrity.
leicapixie
Well-known
A superb manner to free people with no sense of their ill gotten salaries..
Truth about quality and superior results is NOT making digital files from film, except for internet.
Wet laborious printing in a darkroom yields details and sharpness that will blow your mind.
An obsolete 35 mm SLR could set you back $10~25, lenses are easily available esp. 50 mm.
Film is plentiful, chemicals are easily affordable, printing paper again reasonable.
Way cheaper than printing inks for that goofy printer.
I love my toy digitals for internet where the phone is not as good.
Film so much fun.
There is no price on that joy!
Truth about quality and superior results is NOT making digital files from film, except for internet.
Wet laborious printing in a darkroom yields details and sharpness that will blow your mind.
An obsolete 35 mm SLR could set you back $10~25, lenses are easily available esp. 50 mm.
Film is plentiful, chemicals are easily affordable, printing paper again reasonable.
Way cheaper than printing inks for that goofy printer.
I love my toy digitals for internet where the phone is not as good.
Film so much fun.
There is no price on that joy!
Archlich
Well-known
What if the IQ is not my priority...?
Dan
Let's Sway
H I L A R I O U S
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
Haven`t got any of that stuff but can`t argue with the logic .
I am curious though about the dismissal of Sony …. I have two of `em.
Think I know what you might mean though Nick .
This.
I shoot an original A7 with Canon FD glass so no stinkin' OVF Nikon (pun) anymore for me. But the FF 24MP sensor from that camera is identical to the D600 sensor.
And medium format + 4x5 of course.
I finally feel at ease with confessing I suck at 135 film!
raid
Dad Photographer
I use what I have and I don't just follow what someone happens to prefer. There are many choices open that we can choose from. For hobby-photography it does not make any difference really.
Pfreddee
Well-known
Is this a joke?! Looks like it.
With best regards.
Pfreddee(Stephen)
With best regards.
Pfreddee(Stephen)
Michael Markey
Veteran
I didn`t know that it was the same sensor as in the D600 Johann ,although I know that Nikon use Sony sensors.
I alternate my use of the Sony cams with a 5D3 which I tend to use for the sports stuff.
Yes on an objective level the Sony sensor is more modern looking but I still like the 5D3 files.
Re film …. for over 30 years I shot nothing but slide film.
For the last 12 years I`ve been using HP5
My confession is that I suck at film development .
creenus
Established
Yes yes yes! A fine rant, I think!
I finally broke down and went digital - just a few decades late! For my first DSLR, I just got a D600 with an MB-D14 Nikon battery grip (and extra battery) for $600 on FleaBay. I agree - it's a heckova deal because people were scared of alleged spotty sensors - some WERE bad but mine is A-OK.
Why Nikon? Just to tick off a friend who shoots Canon. I don't see any difference between Canon and Nikon gear - it all seems pretty decently made.
D600 has 53 K actuations - it's in great shape. Use it with a Nikkor 50mm AF-S Special Edition f1.8 that I got for $200. Total investment including shipping for D600, battery grip and 50mm lens was $816.00. This lens, BTW, is silly sharp. I may get some Tamron VC lenses in future, like 90mm macro or 15-30mm wide angle. Pretty happy with D600 but also shooting B&W film on Leica Ms. And 120 on Bronica ETRSi.
I do like the instant gratification factor of the DSLR, but I still enjoy wet printing. I'm the black-and-white darkroom tech at a community college in NW New Mexico, which gives me free use of the darkroom.
A fine rant, I think!I finally broke down and went digital - just a few decades late! For my first DSLR, I just got a D600 with an MB-D14 Nikon battery grip (and extra battery) for $600 on FleaBay. I agree - it's a heckova deal because people were scared of alleged spotty sensors - some WERE bad but mine is A-OK.
Why Nikon? Just to tick off a friend who shoots Canon. I don't see any difference between Canon and Nikon gear - it all seems pretty decently made.
D600 has 53 K actuations - it's in great shape. Use it with a Nikkor 50mm AF-S Special Edition f1.8 that I got for $200. Total investment including shipping for D600, battery grip and 50mm lens was $816.00. This lens, BTW, is silly sharp. I may get some Tamron VC lenses in future, like 90mm macro or 15-30mm wide angle. Pretty happy with D600 but also shooting B&W film on Leica Ms. And 120 on Bronica ETRSi.
I do like the instant gratification factor of the DSLR, but I still enjoy wet printing. I'm the black-and-white darkroom tech at a community college in NW New Mexico, which gives me free use of the darkroom.
BillBingham2
Registered User
No,no,no. All you need is a rock with a pin hole for a lens and some pterodactyl skin for the bellows.
An impressive amount of tilts and swings for such a primitive camera.....
B2 (;->
NickTrop
Veteran
We are now categorizing individuals based on their sartorial choices? "DSLR-men"? I am giving you a road map -- the one true correct logical path to navigate a sea of confusing choices.
If these choices were programmed into Watson or some other narrow AI Von Neumann box with sophisticated algorithms designed for THE one optimal price/performance solution for gear choice, there is no doubt in my mind its and my own choices would exacty align.
1. APS digital cameras? No. Since when was APS ever any good? Smaller? Even worse. This negates 85% of all gear out there excluding cell phones.
2. Small format film? No. Shoot it for fun. But it's obsolete. (Medium and large format film is stil fine, however.)
3. That leaves you with only full frame cameras. Which ones are best?
4. Answer: the ones with the best sensor specs. And there is great and surprising variance within this realm such as the surprisingly lackluster performance of Canon and Leica sensors according to DXO. That leaves with two vendor choices: Nikon or Sony (and one Pentax) based on impartial published independent evaluation available to all.
5. Sony is eliminated for a host of reasons pertaining to the bodies Sony chose to put their great sensors in. That leaves only Nikon (and a Pentax -- which is a viable contrarian choice...)
6. Which Nikon? The one with the highest price/performance ratio.
... and that clearly is a used Nikon D600 which has been greatly devalued due to some early production problems and associated bad PR by way of blog chatter...
I have applied equally impeccabe rationale to what lenses, what order to purchase them in -- and why. I won't rehash this now.
Nikon D600 with low actuations and the 50/1.4 AF-D. Used. ~ $870. (Add other lenses later...)
This clearly resolves the upper limit of the price/perforance ratio of currently available gear. Hands down. Bar none.
Let's see what Mr. Rockwell has to say about the matter -- for ducks. Well, well, well --
"The Nikon D600 is Nikon's best digital camera ever, at any price. The D600 has better image quality than any of Nikon's professional cameras like the $6,000 D4, and the D600 is the smallest and lightest full-frame digital camera ever from Nikon. The D600 has the best ergonomics and handling of any Nikon DSLR."
-- and he published this before one could be had used for $6-700 bucks. It slightly outperforms the current production D750 (94-93 per DXO) with the same resolution spec of 24MP, more than enough and relevant for some time to come, and bumps up against the top-of-the-line D810 rated at 97.
https://kenrockwell.com/nikon/d600.htm