No, No, No! Your Gear is ALL Wrong!

[Roger Hicks]

Grain, mood, "what have you" is added in post now. . . . .

Dear Nick,

First, no. You can't "add in post" the look of a particular lens, so your camera had better be capable of accepting the lens(es) you want to use.

Second, why piddle about trying to "add in post" effects that you can get straight out of the camera, IF you choose the right camera and lens?

I'm just getting back into using a 50/1.2 Canon. My favourite films with it were Agfachrome and Ferrania 1000. Sure, I could 'add grain, mood, "what have you"' but why would I? Why not explore what I can do with my M9 instead?

My fundamental objection to your argument is that you have too rigorously separated art and science. A photographer who concentrates too much on the one at the expense of the other is risking something. Call it what you will: vision, artistic integrity, your immortal soul. Or even just personal preference.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Yokosuka Mike]

Nick, you've got...

Well I'm ever upper class high society
God's gift to ballroom notoriety
And I always fill my ballroom
The event is never small
The social pages say I've got
The biggest balls of all

--AC/DC "Big Balls"

Rock on dude! Never give an inch!

Mike

 

[NickTrop]

Talking of measuring things, Nick, can I ask what size prints you regularly do? This has an important bearing on the subject, like tripods, mirror locks and so on...


Regards, David

I use an Epson Artisan 1430, generally just 8X10's sometimes larger, assorted Red River papers, and OEM inks always.

 

[PKR]

1. Money is no object and you want THE very best from an image quality specifications stand-point. In which case you would purchase those cameras whose sensor ratings = 100.

Given that case, why not use a 100mp Phase ? it's a Bayer array I think, as per previous sensors, and could be tested by DXOMark I would guess?

I wonder if DXOMark tests Phase One cameras ?

https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Camera-Systems/XF100MP.aspx

I don't own a Phase but, they are rentable. My studio mate has a Phase back on his Sinar P. Great image quality. I'm sure it would score high on the pixel peeping chart.

.Oh look.. I'm wrong. DXOMark does test them, and the 180 got beat by a Pentax K5 !
https://www.dxomark.com/phase-one-iq-180-the-new-king-of-all-sensors/

And then, there's Red Camera.
https://fstoppers.com/editorial/exclusive-red-has-big-plans-be-your-still-camera-maker-34469
.

 

[Axel]

Just found one of my cameras, the Sony A33, in the Database.
Same Rating as an EOS 1D Mark III.
1. astonished
2. just tried a picture
3. nothing changed 🙁

Now I can guess about my Fuji X-M1.
Compared to the A33 it is better in all categories.
Although these are astonishing rankings for two of my old workhorses that tells
me nothing.
I have no need to compare when I know what I want and which camera fulfills my requirement.

 

[airfrogusmc]

The camera doesn't make a bit of difference. All of them can record what you are seeing. But, you have to SEE. - Ernst Haas

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Dogman]

Yep. I've said it before, ain't a one of my cameras ever gone out and made a great pictures without my help. Ain't a one of 'em ever made a crappy picture without it being my fault.

 

[PKR]

The camera doesn't make a bit of difference. All of them can record what you are seeing. But, you have to SEE. - Ernst Haas

I couldn't agree more.

Good luck with that..

Some see and most don't. As per my earlier post.

pkr

 

[Roger Hicks]

The camera doesn't make a bit of difference. All of them can record what you are seeing. But, you have to SEE. - Ernst Haas

I couldn't agree more.

Um... Yes it does. or at least it can. Up to what I call the quality plateau, a better camera will give you better pictures. Beyond that level, your vision matters more than the camera.

The quality plateau is not fixed: it varies from photographer to photographer. But it exists.

Cheers,

R.

 

[airfrogusmc]

What is better pictures? I mean I have seen insanely good bodies of work shot with a holga.

I have seen insanely crappy, look a like, clean, in focus, non inspiring images taken with the latest greatest. Most people that are photographers today can't see. They can't see light. They can't see moments. They have absolutely nothing to say visually.

The person that shot the body of work with the holga could really see.

Then you have inspiring photographers like Haas that could really see.

 

[kuuan]

Photography is a wide field, the ideal gear for a landscape photographer will be different to that of a street photographer. Size, handling, performance.. each photographer weighs his personal needs and preferences.
For many or even most photographer any new m4/3rd and bigger sensor camera will perform well enough, nevertheless great to have sensor ratings and they will be important, also with reason, for some.
This is about choosing gear, not about what makes good photography.
( edit: thread started with gear but please airfrogusmc, go ahead, "what is better pictures" is of higher interest )

 

[Stuart John]

Dear Nick,

First, no. You can't "add in post" the look of a particular lens, so your camera had better be capable of accepting the lens(es) you want to use.

Second, why piddle about trying to "add in post" effects that you can get straight out of the camera, IF you choose the right camera and lens?

I'm just getting back into using a 50/1.2 Canon. My favourite films with it were Agfachrome and Ferrania 1000. Sure, I could 'add grain, mood, "what have you"' but why would I? Why not explore what I can do with my M9 instead?

My fundamental objection to your argument is that you have too rigorously separated art and science. A photographer who concentrates too much on the one at the expense of the other is risking something. Call it what you will: vision, artistic integrity, your immortal soul. Or even just personal preference.

Cheers,

R.

Or shoot shoot some high speed B&W film with that film M.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Or shoot shoot some high speed B&W film with that film M.

Dear Stuart,

Still do! Or rather,"with those film Ms".

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

What is better pictures? I mean I have seen insanely good bodies of work shot with a holga.

I have seen insanely crappy, look a like, clean, in focus, non inspiring images taken with the latest greatest. Most people that are photographers today can't see. They can't see light. They can't see moments. They have absolutely nothing to say visually.

The person that shot the body of work with the holga could really see.

Then you have inspiring photographers like Haas that could really see.

Quite. Which is why I did not attempt to define "better camera" in the post above. If a Holga gives you better pictures than you're getting with your latest DSLR, the Holga is the better camera.

You are, therefore, agreeing that there is such a thing as "a better camera", and with my premise that "The quality plateau is not fixed: it varies from photographer to photographer. But it exists."

Cheers,

R.

 

[David Hughes]

Photography is a wide field, the ideal gear for a landscape photographer will be different to that of a street photographer. Size, handling, performance.. each photographer weighs his personal needs and preferences.
For many or even most photographer any new m4/3rd and bigger sensor camera will perform well enough, nevertheless great to have sensor ratings and they will be important, also with reason, for some.
This is about choosing gear, not about what makes good photography... SNIP!

I couldn't agree more but, trouble is, we often see posts that ought to be about suitable cameras turn into snobbery versus sense rows. From time to time I wonder how many people would notice the difference if they had to use (a film example) a Cosmic Symbol but I dare not suggest it...

And a lot of people would find things improve a lot if they bought a tripod instead of another lens.

Regards, David

 

[Stuart John]

Um... Yes it does. or at least it can. Up to what I call the quality plateau, a better camera will give you better pictures. Beyond that level, your vision matters more than the camera.

The quality plateau is not fixed: it varies from photographer to photographer. But it exists.

Cheers,

R.

Thats something I've always agreed with, but I think the quality plateau is much lower than most hobbyists want to believe especially with digital today.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Thats something I've always agreed with, but I think the quality plateau is much lower than most hobbyists want to believe especially with digital today.

Dear Stuart,

I could not agree more, but equally, there are some applications or artistic visions (not many) for which you need ultra large formats or very large numbers of megapixels or maybe just weird lenses. Or indeed a Holga.

I'd also suggest that many hobbyists were equally unrealistic when film ruled the roost.

Cheers,

R.

 

[airfrogusmc]

Quite. Which is why I did not attempt to define "better camera" in the post above. If a Holga gives you better pictures than you're getting with your latest DSLR, the Holga is the better camera.

You are, therefore, agreeing that there is such a thing as "a better camera", and with my premise that "The quality plateau is not fixed: it varies from photographer to photographer. But it exists."

Cheers,

R.

Like I said earlier in post #136 on pg 4
"It's not about buying the technically best gear you can afford but it is and should be about having equipment that best matches the way that you see and work."

 

[PKR]

Thats something I've always agreed with, but I think the quality plateau is much lower than most hobbyists want to believe especially with digital today.

Yep, most pro/consumer level cameras do a fine job. Many of the older niche cameras were/are used by pros and art photographers. The GF-1 comes to mind. And today, the little Sony X 100 series are often used for some work.

 

[jsrockit]

You know what, you are damn right that emotion comes into play when I am buying a camera. It comes into play when I put it in my hands and decide that it feels right. It comes into play when I feel that I want to use it every single day. It comes into play when I raise the VF to my eye to make that photo that felt right (felt good) to make. I'm not ashamed that my camera may cost more than the best bargain. What's a couple of hundred dollars when it comes to my happiness and comfort? Nothing.