Noblex or Widelux?

[Steve Karr]

Wow ... the Wiese 202's are $630.

That's a lot for an upgrade on a $240 camera. How is it Perfect, because $630 isn't all that much.

 

[europanorama]

read about my problems and others in my forum around horizons then you understand why its wiser to invest for the best horizon. or do you want to hd teh same faith like hundreds if not thousands which have to accept bad camera-end-controls.
if you dont want to listen let someone give you a horizon 202 for free, but dont come back here and whine.

 

[europanorama]

read about close-up-filters in my forum.

 

[europanorama]

get horizons only from repair-experts

get horizons only from repair-experts

i was even in moscov in 1981 and phototass/technointorg didnt want to help me get rid of light-leaks. meanwhile there are solutions. everyting in my forum. but it must be a repairman with decade-long experience. and wiese is one of the few horizon-experts worldwide.

 

[Vince Lupo]

I bought my Horizon 202 brand new about 12 years ago from a place in San Francisco, and used it for all kinds of magazine assignments. Never had any trouble with it, and the results were quite sharp (I still have it, but admittedly haven't used it in a while). As I mentioned in an earlier post, the only issue I ever had was the the tendency for the film advance lever locking screw to loosen, so you'd have to remove the plastic cover for the lever and tighten the screw underneath. I'm sure that some Loctite would have cured the problem, but other than that I've never had any other troubles with it. Maybe I just got a good one!

 

[sjw617]

Wow.. timely thread for me. I wonder if a 202 is good for closer-up stuff? I know you can shoot at f/16 and get 1 meter but who can shoot at 16 all the time, besides thats hyperfocal, not really focus. 90% of my work is people in their environment, but People first. Will (or does) any of the less expensive cameras really get the foreground sharp

I don't think any swing lens camera is good for close up work. The swing lens creates distortation like bending lines and close up work may have a fisheye effect. I think a fixed lens camera will fit your needs.
Steve

 

[pagpow]

Back in the day --

I saw someone who had hotrodded their swing lens camera with a close up lens. This should be possible with the 202 by putting appropriate diopter in one of the filter holders, with or w/o getting rid of the filter.

Keep in mind, though that the focus plane would be very clearly curved close up, so subject placement and angle subtended by the subject make a difference to focus.

Steve --

Gunter Spitzing in The PhotoGuide to Effects and Tricks, Amphoto 1974
has a section on close up diopters on a Horizont, forerunner of the Horizon 202.

He had an optician cut 16x16 mm squares of +1, +4, and +10 diopters and mounted them on the UV filter for the camera w. adhesive tape.

You'll have to check whether the focus of the Horizon and Horizont are set at the same distance.

For the +1, he gives a focus distance of 1m, just as you would expect from any lens set at infinity, with a +1 diopter. He does not provide dof figures w. the diopter in place.

For street, you might want to try +0.5 and +1, and play w. the aperture.
Remember that the limited depth of field at larger apertures will be curved portion of a cylinder.

Couldn't find your section on close up lenses at your link, europanorama.

 

[kjoebek]

This picture are taken with a old Horizon camera

 

[europanorama]

Hi Michael,
There are lots of new Horizon 202 for sale on ebay and other vendors. Are those the ones with the better lens?

read my first long message. there are a lot of lies about s3pro lens-quality.

 

[europanorama]

I don't think any swing lens camera is good for close up work. The swing lens creates distortation like bending lines and close up work may have a fisheye effect. I think a fixed lens camera will fit your needs.
Steve

go to my forum-link in older message. its all explained there about closeup-lenses and instruction how to make them or simulate them. its a matter of patience to dig through all the horizon-problems. i have had spent decades...

 

[europanorama]

Steve --

Gunter Spitzing in The PhotoGuide to Effects and Tricks, Amphoto 1974
has a section on close up diopters on a Horizont, forerunner of the Horizon 202.

He had an optician cut 16x16 mm squares of +1, +4, and +10 diopters and mounted them on the UV filter for the camera w. adhesive tape.

You'll have to check whether the focus of the Horizon and Horizont are set at the same distance.

For the +1, he gives a focus distance of 1m, just as you would expect from any lens set at infinity, with a +1 diopter. He does not provide dof figures w. the diopter in place.

For street, you might want to try +0.5 and +1, and play w. the aperture.
Remember that the limited depth of field at larger apertures will be curved portion of a cylinder.

Couldn't find your section on close up lenses at your link, europanorama.

everything is discussed and linked in the forum. maybe login is needed. contact lenses were integrated into empty filter-holders. i didnt yet do it but will. i have a dymotape installed. easily done. not perfect in terms of film handling. one must be very careful when loading film not to slip under the tape. cannot be glued perfectly at one end.

 

[thegman]

I have a Horizon Perfekt, very sharp lens, small and easy to use. I've not used it enough to comment on build quality, but it feels pretty decent. It's not a Leica of course, and there is a lot of plastic in the build, but don't let the "Lomography" name make you think it's a toy, it's not.

 

[europanorama]

You are right. Horizon Perfect must have been named after the bad issues with 202. We had to rebuild it. is working now. I wonder if perfect has the same unsharp lens(only at fstop 16) like s3pro. perfect is the replacement of 202. there is a horizon-wiki.

Horizon Kompakt must have been a crazy idea of Lomography. A pancam with only two exposure times! how many apertures?

Ugly plastic-shutter-button
What i dont like in my s3pro is the plastic solution for the shutter-button. better than on 202 but still moving. why? If you use cable-release you will get problems when cocking the shutter after each shot. Moving cable can fire the cam beforehand. Old metallic horizon had a stiff button.
Thats why i made a construction with built-in-cable-release. my repair-man could make a flexible solution where one have both shooting options.

 

[Texsport]

Unless you are going to scan your own work, the Noblex 150's 6X12s are easier to have scanned by commercial shops than the odd sized Widelux, for which very few shops have a scanning holder.

Texsport

 

[Frank Petronio]

Get the best Noblex you can afford. Precision Camera Works - Bob Watkins - in Chicago can maintain them. He also does Widelux service.

The later Horizons might be OK, the earlier ones are real hit or miss. Their lenses are fine, it's the drive train that chews up your film that sucks.

Personally, I would only bother with the 6x12 120 Noblexes after mucking around with the rest. 35mm isn't worth it. And for a lot of basic stuff, stitching works at least as well. But when you have the right situation for a rotating lens shot, then no digital solution is as good.

 

[europanorama]

Hi Michael,
There are lots of new Horizon 202 for sale on ebay and other vendors. Are those the ones with the better lens?

202-lens is good, s3pro(203)-lens is bad at f16! BASTA-no need to further investigate. they did not produce lenses wiht low and highquality bit the replaced a good lens with a bad one despite all the lies on promotion-sites.
i have learnt from a wiki-site that some of the newer cams are still produce by roxsen

 

[Texsport]

I own a Widelux F7 and a big 6X12 120 film Noblex 150.

I never considered the 35mm Noblex, as it has a reputation of problematic design flaws

Image quality is outstanding from either camera, and I have never had a mechanical problem of any kind with either camera. I have read that some Widelux cameras require servicing as they age.

I use them differently, the Widelux as a hand held people and event capture device, while the Noblex 150 is primarily for tripod mounted, planned photos. The tripod is essential when using the multiple exposure feature for low light conditions.


Texsport

 

[x-ray]

I have a Horizon 203 (perfection?) and had a Widelux 7. Ive not seen any difference in optical quality but the camera is way more riable than the Widelux. I had all kinds of banding issues with the Widelux and none even in cold conditions with the Horizon. I have no complaints about the 203. I also has a soviet era Jorizon, the all metal one. It appeared crude but worked every time.

 

[x-ray]

Frank mentioned the Roundshot. I purchased the standard 35mm version about twenty years ago. I had an annual report that I needed it for and liked it so much I kept it for ten or so years. I did a lot of work for golf courses and did some 2'x24' prints for the clubhouses needless to say a 24 foot panorama is impressive. The lenses on these are first class and the mechanics are typical Swiss. They're as good as you can get. I finally sold it but have thought several times of getting a 120 model. They're making digital ones now but they're out of sight in cost.