Noblex or Widelux?

focus yes but not sharp pan anymore-roundshot 28....

focus yes but not sharp pan anymore-roundshot 28....

ask the people on panphoto.com or in the panorama-list.
that is the main reason why those fixfocus pancams cannot be focussed. in roundshot 65/70/220 or 65 el focus is made by changing slit to film-distance not using helicoid ring. thats why changing lens roundshots were so expensive. they must be electronically conrolled.
thats why widelux 1500 is not sharp anymore below 5m, thats why noblex was using diopters first. i dont know how noblex focussing is working.
rotapan-shooting is not easy. also not easy is film loading. complaining about it is complete nonsense dont wonder if images are not sharp using 50mm lens. its a slow shooting procedure depending how near is foreground if you shoot indoors.
yes widelux 1500 is very robust, so are the older roundshot 65 el or 65/70/220, but w1500 is for the museum, or your have one of the latest rebuild ones.
noblex cams are not so rigig but the best swinglens-cams optically spoken and regarding versatility.(exposure times). for swinglens i can only advice between any of the noblex and horizon s3-pro(dont forget fstop 16 is not perfectly sharp, one has to exchange the lens and use a 202-lens.
everything in my forum.
 
ishpop said:
Hey Raid. I realize this is not a swing camera, but you recommend it for general 120 wides right? Like a 21mm POV? What format, 6 X 9 roughly?

Here is one I found:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...Track=true&ssPageName=VIP:Watchlink:middle:us

My guess is this is a tripod only cam or maybe can be handheld?
Click to expand...

I have 3 or 4 backs for the camera, with coverages from 6x7 to roughly 6x9 depending on the back used. I often use it handheld for street photography. The 47mm 8.0 Schneider gives a 21mm coverage [for 35mm].

The Brooks Veriwide supposedly has a wider coverage with "true 6x9". The Brooks costs much more.

The XLSW is a light camera that is very well built [metal frame] and that can deliver very sharp images. I paid $330 for camera with lens and two backs many years ago. I also have a ground glass back for it.
 
I have not tried the Horizen or Noblex, but I own a Widelux-7 and have not encountered any major problems. I keep the inside free of debris and rotate the turret a few times in between roles of film. So far, no banding problems. The lens is really sharp, resulting in uniform clarity from edge to edge. For me, this camera is a joy to use. I have a few Widelux images in my RFF gallery.
 
I bought my Horizon 202 about 10 years ago new, and it's a great camera for the money. The only thing I found that happens is that the film advance lever loosens, and you have to remove the plastic top cover to tighten it back up. Not a big deal, and that's really been the only issue. A fine camera if you don't want to spend a lot of money -- and mine came with a grip, filters, and a carrying case to boot!
 
I have been monitoring ebay widelux, noblex and recently horizon cameras.
My comments:

Widelux prices are steep because they are collectibles.
Noblex prices are steeper because they are newer and supportable (?)
Horizon prices are artificially priced high because of the lomo crowd.

In the end, I bidded and won a S3 U-500 for under $200. Hope it works out.
 
Just a comment on comparing the uses of Widelux, Horizon and Noblex. All 3 are nice for landscapes, but Widelux is nicest for street photography and reportage-type event photography. It has a 26 mm lens with fixed focus at 3.3 m (11 feet), and can reach both nearer and to infinity with modest stopping down. If you take photos of people or animals, you will want focus in this nearer range, and you will not want the shutter lag of the Noblex. Horizon is fixed at infinity focus. The full aperture 2.8 on Widelux is probably of most practical use indoors, where the closer focus is an advantage, too.
 
raytoei@gmail.com said:
Widelux prices are steep because they are collectibles.
Noblex prices are steeper because they are newer and supportable (?)
Horizon prices are artificially priced high because of the lomo crowd.
Click to expand...
The reality though is that none of those are really ubiquitous.
 
presspass said:
Are the Noblex cameras still available new? If so, where can they be purchased in the US?
Click to expand...

Noblex and Widelux are out of business. There still seems to be a few places that have stock of new Noblex cameras--or they have not updated their web sites. I have seen a place in Canada that has some. I would do a search.
 
ishpop said:
Haha, wow.

You really know your panorama!

What I took from your post is that the best balance of price and features is the Horizon S3 Pro. The only regression from the 202 to the S3 is the F16 sharpness, but it is not significant enough to warrant buying the 202.

It seems any other options would really run me expensive anyways.

What kind of Panorama do you think was used for these shots?

http://www.mvgphoto.com/portfolio/portfolioliste.html

Love them!
Click to expand...

1. horizon

buy 202 and s3pro and find a repairman for these cameras. fototechnik wiese in hamburg is one. he has(although expensive) perfect 202s.
then ask him/them to exchange the lenses. exchange s3pro-lens by the 202 one. all the informations about better lens in s3pro are lies.

i would really think about buying wieses 202. if not you could encounter neverending troubles. ask him if he could get 202lenses and let him exchange the s3pro-lens then. i dont know if he can deliver s3pro. i also had them after the cam was sitting in the shelf. at least i knew what was wrong. the slit-opener-mechanism could move an avoid the opening. thats why this screw must be fixed with loctite(half-force).
with older metallic horizont i even had more problem with the mechanisme and light-seal too until i found a repairman. the metallic material was changing is shape/behaviour with changing temperature!

2. mvg uses widelux 35mm cameras.
 
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You want this: http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d925/f934.cfm

The only rotating pan camera that I've not had issues with are the medium format Noblexes, they seem to have perfected things. The 135mm Noblexes are not as nice as their larger brothers.

The older Horizants and Wideluxes that I used all needed TLC and luck to get consistently good results. I haven't used a Roundshot but it would be fun. I've considered the newer Horizants but think I'd rather save up for a Noblex 6x12 and do it right. I never found focusing to be an issue, I really appreciated the upwards shift, and making long exposures with a Noblex (stacking multiple exposures) is a huge pain, it is impossible to shoot a setting sun for example, you simple end up adding more exposures to make up for the fading light and chasing your tail.

Precision Camera Works in Chicago (Bob Watkins) has a lot of Roundshot, Alpa, and Noblex (and Sinar and other high-end cameras) experience and a stock of parts, so I wouldn't worry about the company not supporting the cameras, you should have another 20 years of servicing without problems, at which time finding film may be more of a problem.

Rotating cameras are vastly more interesting and fun than wide-angle lenses or simply narrow format cameras like the 6x17s and Xpan types. But, in terms of practicality, stitching images together from a normal camera is probably the most versatile, precise, reliable, and cost-effective method.
 
s3pro is the better camera-202-lens the better lens

s3pro is the better camera-202-lens the better lens

so you eighter buy the best 202(from fototechnik wiese) or the newest best camera s3pro which need the best lens(from 202). details in my last post.
results of my tests-confirmed by others can be seen here:
http://www.pbase.com/europanorama/panoramic_camera

there is a wiki about horizon-pancams- there i had to make some corrections. i dont like to read lies or unprecise information. its waste of lifetime finding the truth. horizon-cams and widelux 1500 cam has killed a lot of my lifetime.
 
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buy next sony nex

buy next sony nex

and you will be delighted. much better, lighter and quicker than any rotapancam. you can even do hdr-handsfree- saving even subjects in motion.
btw: some years ago, a digital horizon was officially announced a a press conference of kmz-zenit.
 
Last edited:
europanorama said:
so you eighter buy the best 202(from fototechnik wiese) or the newest best camera s3pro which need the best lens(from 202). details in my last post.
results of my tests-confirmed by others can be seen here:
http://www.pbase.com/europanorama/panoramic_camera

there is a wiki about horizon-pancams- there i had to make some corrections. i dont like to read lies or unprecise information. its waste of lifetime finding the truth. horizon-cams and widelux 1500 cam has killed a lot of my lifetime.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply. Why are the 202's from Wiese better? They cost €470 compared to prices of approx $230 for a new Horizon 202 on eday. Aren't they the same cameras?
 
Wow.. timely thread for me. I wonder if a 202 is good for closer-up stuff? I know you can shoot at f/16 and get 1 meter but who can shoot at 16 all the time, besides thats hyperfocal, not really focus. 90% of my work is people in their environment, but People first. Will (or does) any of the less expensive cameras really get the foreground sharp?

Do I need a rangefinder (XPan) type of camera, because that 'kinda money is too much for me but even $400 wasted in a 202 that only shoots landscapes is not a great idea either. I love the pan look of the 202 over a 35mm full frame, but if it's not sharp.

Is there a Mod. where a tech can move the lens outward some? Seems like a reasonable request, right?

So ... or maybe a 15mm on a Leica?? Just seems limited when you think of a 2 frame spread!

Thanks~
Steve
 
Back in the day --

I saw someone who had hotrodded their swing lens camera with a close up lens. This should be possible with the 202 by putting appropriate diopter in one of the filter holders, with or w/o getting rid of the filter.

Keep in mind, though that the focus plane would be very clearly curved close up, so subject placement and angle subtended by the subject make a difference to focus.
 
Ah! ... Now you're talking!

So maybe eye glass diopters cut to fit into the little filter trays.
I wonder why this never was formally implemented?

Any others?
 
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