Official announcement of Nokton 35mm F1.2 II

[Leica All Day]

I for one, am happy that Cosina is making this lens....whether it has the same image quality or not as the previous version, I guess we will just have to wait and see.......but as far as the company deciding to make this lens, I think it is a positive thing for rangefinder users.....

that said, I am one of the guys who went out and bought a second BNIB black version I when I found out it was being discontinued (before the announcement of the version II).......my chrome version is my main lens now, but I wanted to buy a "back-up" because there was one available at my local store and the price was around 970 USD.....that, and I had the extra money lying around.......

cheers, michael

 

[Spyro]

Actually you do have a right to lower prices. Thats how free markets are supposed to work, and how they work when customers are smart. Enough people complain and refuse to be screwed over, and they have no choice but to lower the price. Of course, with all these guys all screaming how good it feels to be raped, Cosina is absolutely justified in doubling the price. That's also how free markets work. The choice is yours, guys. Are you going to beg for more, or say NO?

Nope, actually we don't have any right to lower prices. If we did, and someone enforced it for us, it wouldnt be a free market anymore.

...which of course would be the end of the world as we know it

 

[kemal_mumcu]

Prices be what they may one just has to wait boys and girls. These bubbles do eventually burst as the fan craze blows over and things return to normal. One just has to wait... Sure, things won't return to what they were years ago but there will always be a new normal.

Besides, I have a lot of learning left to do with my current kit.

 

[back alley]

Roland, Its overpriced because they essentially DOUBLED THE PRICE overnight. Let me repeat, for those who are too busy bending over and asking for a harder screwing to have read what I just typed. THEY DOUBLED THE PRICE!!



Actually you do have a right to lower prices. Thats how free markets are supposed to work, and how they work when customers are smart. Enough people complain and refuse to be screwed over, and they have no choice but to lower the price. Of course, with all these guys all screaming how good it feels to be raped, Cosina is absolutely justified in doubling the price. That's also how free markets work. The choice is yours, guys. Are you going to beg for more, or say NO?

first of all, stop ranting like an ass.

and second...go talk to a woman that has been raped and then i dare you to toss that word around again.

so smart and so stupid wrapped in one package.

 

[CameraQuest]

Roland, Its overpriced because they essentially DOUBLED THE PRICE overnight. Let me repeat, for those who are too busy bending over and asking for a harder screwing to have read what I just typed. THEY DOUBLED THE PRICE!!

Chris,

DOUBLED?

For about 7 years the Voigtlander 35/1.2 stayed at the SAME US price $879. During that same time Leica almost always raised prices 5 to 10% TWICE per year, or at least a dozen price raises while the 35/1.2 stayed the same price until 2010.

The 35/1.2 V1 price is now $1199 covering a span of EIGHT years. That is not doubling.

Increasing the 35/1.2 V1 by Leica style price increases, compounding averaging 7.5% increase twice a year from 2003 to 2010, adds up to 15 price increases by my calculation to a Leicaized price of only $2419. Of course that is hypothetical and Voigtlander is not Leica, but it does make $1199 seem fairly low priced by comparison.

The retail selling price of the new 35/1.2 V2 has not been announced yet, so speculation on it is just that, speculation.

Stephen

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

first of all, stop ranting like an ass.

and second...go talk to a woman that has been raped and then i dare you to toss that word around again.

so smart and so stupid wrapped in one package.

Joe, you have no right to call me an ass, I did not call you or anyone else nasty names. I like you and have always thought of you as a friend, so I didn't deserve that.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Chris,

DOUBLED?

For about 7 years the Voigtlander 35/1.2 stayed at the SAME US price $879. During that same time Leica almost always raised prices 5 to 10% TWICE per year, or at least a dozen price raises while the 35/1.2 stayed the same price until 2010.

The 35/1.2 V1 price is now $1199 covering a span of EIGHT years. That is not doubling.

Increasing the 35/1.2 V1 by Leica style price increases, compounding averaging 7.5% increase twice a year from 2003 to 2010, adds up to 15 price increases by my calculation to a Leicaized price of only $2419. Of course that is hypothetical and Voigtlander is not Leica, but it does make $1199 seem fairly low priced by comparison.

The retail selling price of the new 35/1.2 V2 has not been announced yet, so speculation on it is just that, speculation.

Stephen

Stephen,

If the price turns out to be the $1700 or so that some of the guys here are thinking, it will be close to (but not quite) double the $879 price. I understand that it stayed that price for several years, but when it suddenly went to $1199, that seemed a really, really steep jump. Like you said, the final price of the new Voigtlander lens is speculation.

About Leica, I've never bought a new item from them and NEVER will, so long as they keep pricing working pros like me out of the market. If I wanted overpriced jewelry, I'd buy a Rolex, which costs the same as a new Leica and works better as a status symbol (I kid you not, when I was a teenager, an old woman in my neighborhood bought a Rolex and put the receipt on her fridge with a magnet so visitors to her house would see what she paid for it!). The kind of extreme price increases that Leica keeps imposing happen only because so many Leica users have more cash than brains. Like I said in my earlier post, in the free market economy we have, businesses only get away with this kind of thing when customers encourage it. I'm telling people to stop doing that, its not in the interests of anyone to overpay..even if you're rich.

 

[CameraQuest]

Stephen,

If the price turns out to be the $1700 or so that some of the guys here are thinking, it will be close to (but not quite) double the $879 price. .

Why go off on an insulting rant based upon guesses from guys
who know no more about the unannounced retail price than you do?

If the new announced is at $1700 retail, THEN rant.
There is always plenty of time to rant after you find out the price.

Stephen

 

[Luna]

If you believe the Japanese home market is based off of Japanese reseller's prices on eBay then you might as well believe the MSRP that Cosina posted on their website. Basically the same integrity.

CameraQuest, if the retail is $1700 for the lens after the yen conversion for ￥80/$1, what do you predicate the sale price from CameraQuest.com will be?

 

[shyoon]

Like I said in my earlier post, in the free market economy we have, businesses only get away with this kind of thing when customers encourage it. I'm telling people to stop doing that, its not in the interests of anyone to overpay..even if you're rich.

Overpaying is a relative term. You can't tell people to stop buying goods just because you feel it's too expensive. Some people might find it cheap. That's the beauty of the free market.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Why go off on an insulting rant based upon guesses from guys
who know no more about the unannounced retail price than you do?

If the new announced is at $1700 retail, THEN rant.
There is always plenty of time to rant after you find out the price.

Stephen

My rant was not really directed at the price as it was at the people here who are falling all over themselves to proclaim that they'll gladly pay that much or more. Jeez.

Some people see photography as an expensive hobby that should stay expensive so that they can brag about the insane sums of money that gear costs.

Others of us see it as something more. To me, it is a form of art, it is my way of expressing myself, it is a way to connect with people, it is more than a hobby, more than a profession (though I do earn my living at it). It is a way of life, as painting or sculpture are to other serious artists who work in those mediums. For people like me, a crowd of cheerleaders for aggressive price increases for the equipment we need to do the thing that makes life itself worth living are not doing us any favors.

If prices have to rise because of the exchange rate, or inflation, or increases in the costs of production...fine, that's understandable. As you know, as any businessman knows, prices are not based solely on those factors, though they are a large part of it for most products. Manufacturers can and do jack up prices steeply if customers show a willingness to be squeezed for more money. I'm telling people to stop doing that. Its like walking into a car dealer, pulling $30,000 in cash from your pocket in front of the salesman and telling him you don't care what the car costs. For my non-USA friends here, in the USA new cars are not sold for the price marked on the price tag. Customers and dealers negotiate prices, and few customers pay the list price. The real price is usually several thousand less. The salesman knows the 'real price' , but because he is paid on commission, he tries to sell for more (a price closer to the list price) if he can get away with it.

 

[huntjump]

Chris, I agree with you on the inaneness of people touting their willingness to pay MORE on a public forum. The internet is not ever a private place, so trends like that are easily searchable by retailers, anyone knows that. I'd say its one thing to say to a friend, yea i'd have paid TWICE that! That same thing talked about on the internet would never do a consumer any good, logically.

However, I think you will find A LOT of other countries bargain prices and are VERY used to not paying "sticker" prices if you will. America is actually a country that gets (for the most part) VERY good prices compared to other countries, and we DO pay sticker for most things.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Plus 5% consumption tax, so an R.R.P. in Japan of 141,750 yen.

The actual street price will be about 70-75% of that, so 99,225 yen - 106,312 yen.

I predict that overseas prices will be around whatever that is in the local currency.

Sales tax in Indiana is 7%, and in many parts of the USA it is higher. In Europe, its a lot higher (VAT tax there). Of course, we Americans escape that by buying from Stephen 🙂 At least for now...there's talk of the government forcing online retailers to collect the sales taxes for all the states, not just on customers in their own state 🙁

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Chris, I agree with you on the inaneness of people touting their willingness to pay MORE on a public forum. The internet is not ever a private place, so trends like that are easily searchable by retailers, anyone knows that. I'd say its one thing to say to a friend, yea i'd have paid TWICE that! That same thing talked about on the internet would never do a consumer any good, logically.

However, I think you will find A LOT of other countries bargain prices and are VERY used to not paying "sticker" prices if you will. America is actually a country that gets (for the most part) VERY good prices compared to other countries, and we DO pay sticker for most things.

I mentioned bargaining on cars because I've seen people here on RFF express surprise when American RFF members mentioned buying cars that way. Our prices are generally good compared to places like Europe and Australia. My God, if I had to pay what Aussies pay for film, I'd go digital! I remember one of the Australian guys here saying that Tri-X is $9 a roll and slide film is $20 downunder! My local store charges $5.50 for Tri-X and $10 for Provia 100, and I think thats expensive because mail order is cheaper!

 

[glchua]

People pay what they think the item is worth.

It's that simple really.

The world's economy is based on that.

So if a company has enough orders to sustain it's production of a perceived overpriced item, so be it. Not much need to complain about, just don't buy!

 

[Keith]

I think the lens's performance will cast a light over whether it's overpriced or not ... because if it's as good or better than the original version people will be tripping over themselves to get hold of it. After all no one else has bothered to make a 35mm f1.2 so effectively Cosina are in charge of giving us a 35mm Noctilux until such time as someone else want's to make a 35mm this fast! (unlikely)

 

[maddoc]

Plus 5% consumption tax, so an R.R.P. in Japan of 141,750 yen.

The actual street price will be about 70-75% of that, so 99,225 yen - 106,312 yen.

I predict that overseas prices will be around whatever that is in the local currency.

Wasn`t there are change in law in Japan in 2004 that sales prices have to include consumtion tax ? Is this only valid for price tags in shops ?

 

[jonmanjiro]

Wasn`t there are change in law in Japan in 2004 that sales prices have to include consumtion tax ? Is this only valid for price tags in shops ?

I don't think it matters as long as the price indicates that consumption tax is not included i.e. (税別).

 

[branki]

I just recently read a piece at TOP that IMHO suits this discussion:

I can't find the post Mike wrote on the Leica User Group (LUG) many years ago now called "The Leica Rules" or something like that, but I do remember one of the cardinal rules, which is that you're not allowed to criticize current Leica products. Only once they've been replaced can you talk frankly about the flaws of the earlier versions. Until it is replaced by Leica, every current Leica product is by definition unimproveable. That's a fact of life—a Universal Truth. Axiomatic."

well, over here we use the exact opposite:
a new CV lens is announced, not even the price is set, and we are sistematically already bashing it! (or at least pointing out its unknown deffects).

/j

 

[roundg]

It will be interesting to monitor the price trend of Ver1 35 1.2 in the used market before/after the release of the new version.