Official announcement of Nokton 35mm F1.2 II

For some reason, this thread reminds me of something that was recently released... Oh yeah, the Fuji X100. That fixed lens digital non-RF RF lookalike is definitely not worth the asking price :rolleyes:

Face it folks, cameras made today are made like commodities. Look at the myriad of models from Olympus & Panasonic in the u4/3 catagory or Sony and Samsung with APS-C ILC. I don't know about you and maybe I'm old, but I only recognize one legacy camera manufacturer in the lineup. They are not making cameras for photographers anymore. They are making cameras for the electronics consumer. I only see a handful of existing camera manufacturers making cameras for photographers. Now I don't want to be blasphemous or anything, but who do you think boutique Leica is making cameras for? Anyone normal you know is buying the Titanium M9 edition for 29K+? The market will bear what consumers are willing to pay for them.

No one here knows how this lens will perform, so how can we already say it's overpriced? I don't know how global you all are, but the US buck isn't what it used to be over on the other side. I lost 10 to 20% in value of my money because someone needed money and decided to just print some more. But what do I know, I'm just a schlep just trying to be a photographer in a world of richer people that is dictating the value of a good lens. :confused:
 
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jarski said:
wonder where people were complaining about lens prices before Internet ? at homes to their wives ? :)
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Before the internet there was no reason to complain because prices hadn't been driven into the stratosphere by cyber babble!
 
Keith said:
Before the internet there was no reason to complain because prices hadn't been driven into the stratosphere by cyber babble!
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Exactly!

I remember when even high end cameras were affordable by professional photographers and artists, when you didn't need a trustfund or a law degree to buy a professional level camera. Even Nikon and Canon gear is all outrageously priced. When I was 18, I bought a Nikon F4s, 50mm f1.4 AF-Nikkor, and SB-25 flash for a grand total of $1800. NEW. This was the top of the line stuff from Nikon in 1994.
 
My God, if I had to pay what Aussies pay for film, I'd go digital! I remember one of the Australian guys here saying that Tri-X is $9 a roll and slide film is $20 downunder! My local store charges $5.50 for Tri-X and $10 for Provia 100, and I think thats expensive because mail order is cheaper!
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Don't forget, Aussies get paid far more (for regular workers) than Americans do, and they also get health insurance, paid sick leave, holiday leave, and parental leave. I believe the minimum wage is something like $15, and their dollar is on par or more. So, it's worth it.

Although the price of film in New Zealand makes Australian prices look cheap, if they even carry the film you're looking for.

its not in the interests of anyone to overpay..even if you're rich.
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Economically true, but not otherwise. Veblen goods. it's in their interest when they want to show off, basically. It's why people drive Ferraris on the road, but never take them to a track. To show off.

Also, luxury brands aren't created by products necessarily, but marketing and/or history.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
When I was 18, I bought a Nikon F4s, 50mm f1.4 AF-Nikkor, and SB-25 flash for a grand total of $1800. NEW. This was the top of the line stuff from Nikon in 1994.
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Well we cant blame much of that on currency because Yen/USD is not much lower than 1994 levels

JPY-Versus-USD-Chart-1970-2010.jpg


Neither can we blame it on manufacturing costs because Nikon has shifted most it's production to SE Asia since then. Nor can we blame it on massive profits because Nikon's photo segment has been netting them a 7-10% operating profit margin the last few years. Hardly earth-shattering... Maybe DSLRs are indeed more expensive to make than film SLRs after all.

Chris, do you find it's the same deal with most consumer goods and cost of living in the US or is it just cameras that went through the roof since then? Inflation maybe? Based on official data $1,800 in 1994 is worth about $2,600 today. But who trusts official data... :rolleyes:
 
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Mister E said:
No, they never stated that officially. Secondly they make their own glass in house as Gandy, Tom A, etc always like to point out. They clearly didn't run out as they just threw up another batch for this new lens.
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Yes, they did state that officially. Maybe not on their website, but on inquiry they did. I remember on different websites reading from different sources that inquired with Cosina and got that information.
 
At $1700, the price of the Voigtlander 35/1.2 with 3 aspherical surfaces is the same as the Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 35mm f/1.4G Wide-Angle Lens in the US, from a large Photo/Video store. The AF-S Nikkor has 1 aspheric element and is about 70% more than the price of the older 35/1.4 Manual focus lens.

My Voigtlander 35/1.2 and 50/1.1 are as well made as any Nikkor SLR lens that I own. And I have about 80 of them.

If anything, the original 35/1.2 was underpriced and a "steal" at $900 on today's market. Kind of like my $95 Nikkor 5cm F1.4 in LTM.

Try to find another Aspheric F1.2 for 35mm full-frame coverage "any focal length" lens for less, report back when you do.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Roland, Its overpriced because they essentially DOUBLED THE PRICE overnight. Let me repeat, for those who are too busy bending over and asking for a harder screwing to have read what I just typed. THEY DOUBLED THE PRICE!!

Actually you do have a right to lower prices. Thats how free markets are supposed to work, and how they work when customers are smart. Enough people complain and refuse to be screwed over, and they have no choice but to lower the price. Of course, with all these guys all screaming how good it feels to be raped, Cosina is absolutely justified in doubling the price. That's also how free markets work. The choice is yours, guys. Are you going to beg for more, or say NO?
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Chris,

let me try again:

1) Cosina can pick whatever price they want (and we don't know the final US retail price yet ...).
2) If the price is too high high for what it's worth for me, I don't buy (and I won't).

That's how a free market works. Freedom is not reserved to buyers only.

Your graphic complaint on the price, however, says that you feel you have the right to pay less for what's basically a luxury good.

You don't. Nobody "needs" a 35/1.2.

Roland.
 
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Brian Sweeney said:
At $1700, the price of the Voigtlander 35/1.2 with 3 aspherical surfaces is the same as the Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 35mm f/1.4G Wide-Angle Lens in the US, from a large Photo/Video store. The AF-S Nikkor has 1 aspheric element and is about 70% more than the price of the older 35/1.4 Manual focus lens.

My Voigtlander 35/1.2 and 50/1.1 are as well made as any Nikkor SLR lens that I own. And I have about 80 of them.

If anything, the original 35/1.2 was underpriced and a "steal" at $900 on today's market. Kind of like my $95 Nikkor 5cm F1.4 in LTM.

Try to find another Aspheric F1.2 for 35mm full-frame coverage "any focal length" lens for less, report back when you do.
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I didn't realize the Voigtlander was AF, with a built in motor and electronics? Somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison.

Voigtlander should follow Panasonic's lead and build a Asph 20/1.7 that is optically superb and offer it for less than $400. I would buy it. ;)
 
Is it even confirmed that the price is going to be $1700us - or is that just a japanese rrp price? They always end up being a lot different to RRP. Case in point the Sigma sd1 which has 9K rrp, and sells at sigma store for 7K with a lens.
 
illuminati_02 said:
I didn't realize the Voigtlander was AF, with a built in motor and electronics? Somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison.

Voigtlander should follow Panasonic's lead and build a Asph 20/1.7 that is optically superb and offer it for less than $400. I would buy it. ;)
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no- it implements a mechanism that is much more expensive to produce: all mechanical precision for an f1.2 Rangefinder coupling. Much more expensive than electronics in the Nikkor lens.

And apples to oranges: about the same cost per pound.

I'm waiting for a list of Aspheric F1.2 lenses with full-frame 35mm coverage.
 
Brian Sweeney said:
no- it implements a mechanism that is much more expensive to produce: all mechanical precision for an f1.2 Rangefinder coupling. Much more expensive than electronics in the Nikkor lens.

And apples to oranges: about the same cost per pound.

I'm waiting for a list of Aspheric F1.2 lenses with full-frame 35mm coverage.
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Well, Cosina makes an aspheric f1.1 that sells for $1000.

In SLR land, among those currently made there's only the Canons - the Nikkor 50/f1.2 doesn't count, it's only $650 or so but it's not aspheric. The 50/1.2L is $1600 new. Only one aspheric element, but a fairly complex autofocus arrangement with floating elements, and a lot more glass because of the extra lens register for the mirror. Rather well made for an autofocus lens, actually (your point about the mechanical complexity of a rangefinder focus mount is well taken, but I'd say it's offset by the SLR lenses' added complexity of grinding much larger lenses). Then there's the Canon 85/1.2L which is more expensive; usually in the $1800 to $2000 range new, aspheric, quite nice, rather well made again, and a *LOT* more glass due to the longer focal length.
 
The 50mm F1.1 Nokton is not aspheric, it uses all spherical optics. That is one reason the focus shift is so high.

I would love to see an Aspheric version of it.

What I really want to see- a Cosina F-Mount 50/1.2 Aspheric. The Noct-Nikkor has gone stratospheric at $4000+.
 
Just a quick google search on spherical aberration and focus shift:

http://toothwalker.org/optics/spherical.html

Easier than scanning in optics books.

Floating elements were introduced mostly for close-range-correction.

With the M8 and M9, focus shift is visible on the F1.1 Nokton, I built up the RF Cam on mine for F1.1. The focus shift is about the same as my Sonnars.
 
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