Olympus Trip 35 f-stop control?

[benedictjames]

I've just been messin' 'round with my new Trip 35 cameras and it seems that if I manually set an f2.8 f-stop it won't actually open wide up in good light, only in darkly lit indoor places. I've tried 3 different cameras and they're all the same. Now, I opened up the top of the cameras and saw that the meter still reacts to light (needle moves) even if you are off 'A'. Indoors in tungsten light at night, if you set 400 ASA and manually select f2.8, the lens' diaphragms (each one of mine) only open up to f4, and I know this because I half held the shutter release down and went up and down the f-stop scale simultaneously and the diaphragms on each camera won't change at all from f4 wide to f2.8. I tried choosing a few slower ASA speeds down to 25, and behold the diaphragms on each camera DO open to f2.8 when manually selected at those ASAs. Each camera's meter needle still swings even though 'manual' is selected (doesn't it make sense to shut the meter off in manual? ... to let you choose f2.8 regardless of whether you are at 400 ASA or slower?). OK, the big issue here is that I CAN'T manually choose f2.8 to use with that default 1/40th sec if I want to at 400 indoors, so the widest I can get is f4. I've seen some posts elsewhere that have people claiming to be manually shooting at f2.8, but it seems that they may actually set f2.8 on the aperture ring and THINK that the camera is opening up to that f-stop for them, but are they actually locking exposure and physically looking then at the ACTUAL lens opening to check that, as well as checking this with different ASAs? It seems to me that the Trip won't 'let' you shoot wide open in certain circumstances, like as if to say "well what the h*** are you trying to shoot at f2.8 at 400 ASA for - you have a flash on the camera and you'll blow everything out!" Or is it that built into the exposure system is an avoidance of shooting at f2.8 as much as possible because the lens is at its least sharp at that f-stop also? I'd dearly love to know other people's experiences here, because if it's the same with my 3 'perfectly working' cameras, it's more than coincidence. Of course, the red tab stays DOWN when on the manual f-stop settings, and on all 3 cameras it does pop up AND you can see THEN that the diaphragm opens up fully, but that's just because the camera is TRYING to let in more light to suit the exposure range, or what? Sorry if this is a bit long-winded ...
Oh my, I've just come across Mark Wood's post in another thread saying that all this is normal and that it seems I was right in saying the meter still (and should!) behave at all firstly, and behave like that specifically, in 'manual' mode. So much for 'deliberate' f2.8 with a Trip 35 for all those who think just because they see it set on the lens ring that it ACTUALLY shoots wide open - uh uh!!

 

[John Robertson]

Thanks, I also thought mine was faulty. I just got a mint serviced one on ebay for £12.

 

[Mohan]

They're suprisingly great little cameras, I just picked up one for £3 and one for £1.70 on ebay.

 

[Paul C. Perkins MD]

Panorama crop of an image shot with the Olympus Trip 35. One of my favorites images of northern New Mexico.

Paul
Perk11350@aol.com

 

[OlyMan]

Hmmm...peculiar....you'd think F/2.8 meant F/2.8 even if you were shooting the surface of the sun. I admit I have never checked for this phenomenon. I'm currently at work and don't have my Trip 35 to hand, but if it's considered normal behaviour then I guess my camera will be no different. Must admit I don't think I've used the aperture ring on a Trip for anything other than flash photography with an Oly T20. T20 looks HUGE on the Trip, but it's an automatic flash so all you do is set the F-stop on the camera to the setting indicated on the T20's calculator panel and shoot away, without worrying about 'trivialities' such as subject distance

 

[OlyMan]

Test results....

Test results....

Right I think I've got the definitive answer on this. Perhaps someone else can conduct a similar test and confirm the same conclusions? I only have the one Trip 35 so I cannot perform a mass test.

What appears to happen is that the aperture you select becomes the len's maximum aperture, but conversely the camera will happily pick a smaller aperture if the ambient light would, by the camera's primitive logic, produce an over exposure. Therefore to force the camera to always pick the aperture you have chosen and nothing smaller, you must partly press the shutter release with the lens cap on, to force the camera to open to the maximum aperture you've selected.

So much for 'deliberate' f2.8 with a Trip 35 for all those who think just because they see it set on the lens ring that it ACTUALLY shoots wide open - uh uh!!

Not necessarily: going off my test results from my camera, that would depend on the level of ambient light and the film speed. If the 'A' setting is giving you the infamous red flag, then setting the aperture to F/2.8 WILL force it to open to that aperture. Prove this by setting the aperture to F/2.8, put the lens cap on, leave the shutter uncocked and hold down the shutter release. With the shutter release still held down, remove the lens cap and you'll see the aperture is fully open, to F/2.8. Still keeping the shutter button depressed, turn the aperture ring slowly to F/22 and you'll see the aperture blades close, stop by stop. Turn it back to F/2.8 and you'll see the aperture blades return to fully open.

I do agree though that from a creative point of view, it would be more useful for the camera to only select the aperture chosen on the aperture ring. However I guess this was as much as anything a safety feature, to prevent unintended overexposures by the unwary. Looking at it positively though, stick an automatic flash on it (such as a T20), set the aperture on the camera to the aperture recommended by the flashgun, and you've got yourself virtually automatic fill-in flash even in broad daylight.

 

[ruben]

Can anyone explain me the transition of speeds? At what light level it happens ?

Thanks,
Ruben

 

[OlyMan]

Not sure, Ruben. I know that with the manual apertures selected the shutter speed is always 1/40th

 

[xayraa33]

here is a site with directions for mods on an Oly Trip 35 to get 1/200 of a sec. in manual setting.

http://www.kpraslowicz.com/technique/olympus-trip-35-1200th-modification

 

[OlyMan]

here is a site with directions for mods on an Oly Trip 35 to get 1/200 of a sec. in manual setting.

http://www.kpraslowicz.com/technique/olympus-trip-35-1200th-modification

Indeed...I have read that article before. However with my newfound realisation that the autoexposure still adjusts the aperture even in 'manual' mode, he doesn't explain how he's circumvented the problem of the camera opening the aperture 2¼ stops too small for the new forced shutter speed. Maybe he fooled it with the ASA dial, but he doesn't say.

I'd also dispute his statement that the camera "never really got a huge following" because users couldn't select a manual 1/200th. Olympus rekons it shifted over 10 million of these babies worldwide in the 15 years or so they were on sale, so I'm not quite sure what the writer's idea of a sales-success is, if this is not one. That doesn't include the millions of people like me who have acquired a used one, and are just as pleased with it as its very first owner doubtless was.

Niether does his modification turn the '35 into the "manual camera" he claims, but instead locks the shutter permanently at 1/200th, whereas before it had two shutter-speeds 😕 By my logic that seems to have reduced its abilities and flexibilities. But a very interesting article none the less, and no denying him that it is an ingenius mod.

 

[ruben]

And we still don't know what's the camera program, first of all.

 

[OlyMan]

Very true, Ruben.

 

[aad]

From listening to the shutter while taking photos, I'd guess it uses 200 and opens up the aperture to some point that may not be 2.8, then shifts down to 40 for the balance. Of course, the main reason I got this thing was to not think about this stuff!

 

[ruben]

From listening to the shutter while taking photos, I'd guess it uses 200 and opens up the aperture to some point that may not be 2.8, then shifts down to 40 for the balance. Of course, the main reason I got this thing was to not think about this stuff!

Hi aad,

I have some doubts about it, but it will be healthy to remember you have experience with this camera while I do not have.

Being this a zone focus camera for amateurs, logics say the camera is aperture preferred, the smallest apperture as much as possible, to help covering for errors in setting the focus wheel, or if you want - to obtain maximum possible depth of field.

What you have described above is a shutter priority program preferred camera,
which would be very much to my taste, but I doubt the program enable you to have an f2.8 short depth of field at 1/200 speed, instead of jumping to a smaller (and safer for the amateur) aperture at 1/40 speed.

In my calculation diagrame (thought for ISO 400, and taking into account the camera is limited to these only shutter speeds) the camera will upheld the speed of 1/200 in so far the light level enables an aperture from f/22 up to f/8. Afterwards the camera will jump to smaller apertures like f/16 at the 1/40 speed, and slow slow as the light levels go down it will upheld the 1/40 speed up to f/2.8. Afterwards, the red flag.

In other words at sunlit situations or half sunlit situations = 1/200.
At daylight shadows without sun in the scene= 1/40.
Therefore, for the streets with color film, I would use it with a small flash almost permanently mounted. Both for fill in at sun and shadow, and night.

But I have put film in mine, and I would like to be proven mistaken, as what you happen to sense, is what I wish to have.

Ceirtanly there are several revenues in exchange of the taxes. I have never had the opportunity to shoot with a fully "clean" viewfinder, nor to pre-focus point and shoot with a single hand. The viewfinder is very very bright, making it a winner for nights.

BTW, the very low shutter noise can be further lowered by holding the winding wheel with your thumb at the moment of firing.

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[OlyMan]

I must confess I don't give a great deal of thought to which speed it chooses. As you say, Ruben, being a scale-focus camera it would make sense for its primitive cog-driven 'logic' to pick the smallest aperture possible to give the greatest depth of field and the least likelyhood of a poorly-focussed shot. That logic, on this camera, suits me just fine. If I'm ever wanting to blur or freeze the droplets of a waterfall, or do anything else similarly creative which necessitates a particular shutter-speed above all else, then just about the last camera in my collection I'd pick up would be the Trip 35. I'd more than likely head for my OM4Ti or the shutter-preferred 35RC.

 

[mpt600]

I bought my Trip for £3.71, less than the film it eats if bought from the high street. But I don't expect any control over settings, for that I use something else. For the first time in years I'm getting out of focus shots back from the lab, which reminds me why zone focussing is so limiting. Or maybe I should just get better at judging distances? Either way it doesn't happen on my XA, which has the added advantage of film speeds up to 800. But the Trip is nice, I just use it for what it ws intended for; snaps.

 

[aad]

Funny-I haven't had an out-of -focus shot yet with this thing!

Anyway, I took a bunch of pictures on this particular overcast day, some of which went on the Motorcycle thread-this one isn't a great composition, but the depth of field makes me think the camera tends to use a smaller aperture when possible. I don't remember if this was a slow or fast shutter sound.

 

[OlyMan]

Thanks for sharing AAD, can you remember what film was used and which zone-setting you used on the lens?

 

[aad]

That was Fuji Reala, and likely between "group" and "couple" on the focus scale.

 

[shadowfox]

aad, Cool picture

This is the second time I've been inspired to put a slide film in the Trip 35.

Here's an active Trip 35 group on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/groups/olympustrip35/

One of the member there is the guy who gave the instruction on how to rig the Trip for 1/200 always (linked in one of the previous posts).