Overrated photographers...

I think we take some really revolutionary photographers "for granted".
The path they have open is now mainstream, and all the woo-haaa about them SEEMS unjustified.
I don't know the photographer's rating, and would have a hard time to know if they are over or under rated.
I love some, and most don't really interest me.
HCB yes!
AA, not quite. Give me M. Kenna instead.
I thought Portraits are not my cup of tea based on Karsh, but Penn... well Penn... and Arnold Newman too...
I would say that for both AA and Karsh, I see a very good technique but can't see the fingerprint, the soul of the photographer. That's what enoys me with them.
But 99% is about what I like and what I don't. 1% I can say that I really think it's crap.
So who am I to say what's over rated?
 
patrickjames said:
It was late last night when I typed that so I could have phrased it better. Boring was a really poor choice of words. I really meant to say that the work no longer draws the attention it deserves.

I agree about Watson, although he has an advantage over the rest of us because he naturally sees in two dimensions! I love his work too.
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I really don't understand this. Please explain it: "he has an advantage over the rest of us because he naturally sees in two dimensions!"

Have you met Albert Watson? He seems a pretty normal guy .. do you think he has "secret powers" ? Do you think his "perceived two dimensional vision" would diminish his depth perception? I think he's got a driver's license ..
 
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Juan Valdenebro said:
What do you think about Joel-Peter Witkin and his photographs?
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When I first learned of him in the early nineties... (and I went to the show in the article you posted), I thought he was interesting. It was early in my darkroom experience and I thought he approached the darkroom in an interesting way. The content was also interesting at the time to me ... but as time passed, it did less and less for me... and more traditional photography did more and more for me... especially color.

I still don't mind him... and I think he added something to photography's history, but ultimately... :bang:
 
Ansel Adams, who is maybe not over rated, but certainly over exposed. Quite a number of times I have ran into "would be photographers" who have said these exact words to me, "I want to take pictures like Ansel Adams." When I querred them them about other famous photographers, i.e. C-B, Strand, Steichen, Arbus, etch. they responded that they had never heard of them. Is he so great that all others are unknown?
 
Juan Valdenebro said:
He was born blind in one eye.

Cheers,

Juan
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Yes, I understand Juan, and a camera sees with one eye (most cameras), but we have the option of closing one eye, and some sports photographers, have trained themselves to keep both open when at the finder.

That's almost stating that anyone who is blind in one eye will be a great photographer. When you met him, did his wife have the constantly yapping dog present?

My original question concerned age. and Patrick's comment concerning the Kinder-Digi. I thought it was a foolish comment. Look at the mob of "new photographers" copying Irving Penn's work. If it were so "not today", why would these super, intelligent, creative, visionaries of our future, bother to copy Penn so literally ? The same is happening with Avedon. There are schools, full of Gen-X-ers devoted to "copying the work of Adams". The only way to make a mark (if that's your aim) in the photo world, is to be good at what you do.. better than the herd. i don't think age is very important. I think talent is.
 
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patrickjames said:
It was late last night when I typed that so I could have phrased it better. Boring was a really poor choice of words. I really meant to say that the work no longer draws the attention it deserves.

I agree about Watson, although he has an advantage over the rest of us because he naturally sees in two dimensions! I love his work too.
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Photographers over 65 with 2 working eyes..

http://www.philmarco.com/

http://www.jaymaisel.com/

I don't have time to post more. I hope these will do.

I found another .. no photos .. you'll have to do a search after reading. Danny is over 30 years old:

http://dektol.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/the-end-of-the-age-of-photography-pt-ii/#more-159

I enjoyed reading this. Lyons writes well, in my opinion..
 
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Steve Bellayr said:
Ansel Adams, who is maybe not over rated, but certainly over exposed. Quite a number of times I have ran into "would be photographers" who have said these exact words to me, "I want to take pictures like Ansel Adams." When I querred them them about other famous photographers, i.e. C-B, Strand, Steichen, Arbus, etch. they responded that they had never heard of them. Is he so great that all others are unknown?
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His beautiful photographs are highly commercial and require no thinking from an art point of view as other photographers' works do... That's a big part of his massive success or over exposition as you say...

Cheers,

Juan
 
Juan Valdenebro said:
His beautiful photographs are highly commercial and require no thinking from an art point of view as other photographers' works do... That's a big part of his massive success or over exposition as you say...

Cheers,

Juan
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Adams had two quasi public relations groups pushing his work for his entire career: The Sierra Club and The University of California. He did work for both of these groups. There were highly influential people in both of these groups who did much to promote and help Adams. I don't think many others who worked in the same field had these advantages. The Curry Co. was instrumental in funding many of his projects. I'm not saying he didn't deserve this attention, it's just what happened. And, Adams was good at self promotion, better than most!
 
Steve Bellayr said:
Ansel Adams, who is maybe not over rated, but certainly over exposed. Quite a number of times I have ran into "would be photographers" who have said these exact words to me, "I want to take pictures like Ansel Adams." When I querred them them about other famous photographers, i.e. C-B, Strand, Steichen, Arbus, etch. they responded that they had never heard of them. Is he so great that all others are unknown?
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Dear Steve,

Only to the lazy and stupid, which tells you something in its own right.

Cheers,

R.
 
PKR said:
Hi Roger;

i'll try to explain. Many parts of the Valley are now closed to the public. They are, how evrer, open to the "Chosen Ones", the members of the Sierra Club and other "Caretakers of the Valley". Their choice of transportation is typically an SUV. But it's okay for these folks to drive big car-trucks in the valley, as they are saving it for the rest of us, even though we aren't allowed to enjoy it as they are. This is the same group who will suggest you not drive, but take a bus.. while they own one or more private jets parked at the Clovis Airport. Am I clear..?
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Ahhh.... I see.... It's sort of a parody of "In order to save the village, it became necessary to destroy it."

Sorry for being so dense.

Cheers,

R.
 
PKR said:
Hi Roger;

i'll try to explain. Many parts of the Valley are now closed to the public. They are, how evrer, open to the "Chosen Ones", the members of the Sierra Club and other "Caretakers of the Valley". Their choice of transportation is typically an SUV. But it's okay for these folks to drive big car-trucks in the valley, as they are saving it for the rest of us, even though we aren't allowed to enjoy it as they are. This is the same group who will suggest you not drive, but take a bus.. while they own one or more private jets parked at the Clovis Airport. Am I clear..?
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Golly, that's funny. Over three decades I've never driven anything bigger than a sedan into the Valley, I've generally camped at Camp 4/Sunnyside (where dirtbag climbers like me and my friends usually camp), I don't onw a jet (or a prop plane, for that matter) and I'm not a member of the Sierra Club.

I've NEVER been denied access to any part of the Valley. I've NEVER been denied "enjoyment" of any part of the Valley.

In other words, I think that you're essentially making things up, wholesale.

You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
Ahhh.... I see.... It's sort of a parody of "In order to save the village, it became necessary to destroy it."

Sorry for being so dense.

Cheers,

R.
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Yes, I'm sorry to say it may be a "Yankee" thing.

There is a vast separation in "society" under way. I'm sure if you lived here, you saw this in the works. Many of the "trust fund children" have gained power in the "green-movement" and other power centers. I knew-know a couple of these folks. Many of these people have, or have married into the trust money. They don't work, but, need something to do. So, they spend much of their time deciding how WE should spend our time. I don't know if you've met many of these folks, but there are many here in the north. Money doesn't grow on trees, it comes from a check book, that has infinite resources. I have a difficult time relating to them as they have the same problem with me. I would go on, but this is a bit too public for such things.., pkr
 
semilog said:
Golly, that's funny. Over three decades I've never driven anything bigger than a sedan into the Valley, I've generally camped at Camp 4/Sunnyside (where dirtbag climbers like me and my friends usually camp), I don't onw a jet (or a prop plane, for that matter) and I'm not a member of the Sierra Club.

I've NEVER been denied access to any part of the Valley. I've NEVER been denied "enjoyment" of any part of the Valley.

In other words, I think that you're essentially making things up, wholesale.

You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.
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Well, I think the days of "Camp 5" are gone. There are many areas that are "off-limits" in the Valley. I don't have a list. They vary during the year. I'm sure you know the Valley has been closed for private "tour interests" at times.. Maybe you're pals with Doug Tomkins or Yvon Chouinard. I'm not. I have to write for permission for access. But then I also have to pay $2500 to photograph on the GG bridge.
 
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PKR said:
Well, I think the days of "Camp 5" are gone.
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Wrong.

There are many areas that are "off-limits" in the Valley. I don't have a list. They vary during the year. I'm sure you know the Valley has been closed for private "tour interests" at times..
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The areas that I've seen closed seasonally are generally closed to allow damaged vegetation to recover. This is not new; it's been the case since I was a child. Some climbing areas are closed for parts of the year so that peregrine falcons may nest undisturbed. These strike me as good things. I've never heard of the entire Valley or even a major chunk of it being closed for a "tour interest" -- and in addition to my own visits and those of friends, I frequent climbing forums (e.g., Supertopo) where forum members are present in the park 24/7/365. Such a closure would have provoked howls of outrage.

Again, I think that you're painting an almost wholly inaccurate picture.

And no, I've never met Chouinard or Tompkins, although I do own an old laminated bamboo Chouinard-Frost piolet that Yvon C. gave my uncle as a gift for being one of the early Chouinard Equipment dealers in California.

By the way, when you paid to photograph the GG Bridge, to whom did you write the check?
 
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PKR said:
Yes, I'm sorry to say it may be a "Yankee" thing.

There is a vast separation in "society" under way. I'm sure if you lived here, you saw this in the works. Many of the "trust fund children" have gained power in the "green-movement" and other power centers. I knew-know a couple of these folks. Many of these people have, or have married into the trust money. They don't work, but, need something to do. So, they spend much of their time deciding how WE should spend our time. I don't know if you've met many of these folks, but there are many here in the north. Money doesn't grow on trees, it comes from a check book, that has infinite resources. I have a difficult time relating to them as they have the same problem with me. I would go on, but this is a bit too public for such things.., pkr
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More free-floating paranoid generalizations without any concrete, verifiable facts attached to them.

What SPECIFIC things that you did in Yosemite 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago are you no longer able to do? What SPECIFIC places are you prevented from visiting?

Without specifics, your bloviations are empty.
 
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semilog said:
Wrong.



The areas that I've seen closed seasonally are generally closed to allow damaged vegetation to recover. This is not new; it's been the case since I was a child. Some climbing areas are closed for parts of the year so that peregrine falcons may nest undisturbed. These strike me as good things. I've never heard of the entire Valley or even a major chunk of it being closed for a "tour interest" -- and in addition to my own visits and those of friends, I frequent climbing forums (e.g., Supertopo) where forum members are present in the park 24/7/365. Such a closure would have provoked howls of outrage.

Again, I think that you're painting an almost wholly inaccurate picture.

And no, I've never met Chouinard or Tompkins, although I do own an old laminated bamboo Chouinard-Frost piolet that Yvon C. gave my uncle as a gift for being one of the early Chouinard Equipment dealers in California.

By the way, when you paid to photograph the GG Bridge, to whom did you write the check?
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The bridge district contact is mary currie, send her a note and ask the fee per day.

here's someone going through the process. The cost page is not on the GG bridge site .. it's likely prices are going up. It was the only quick citation I could find.. I'm done.


http://www.facebook.com/tritonpictures


http://www.us-parks.com/yosemite-national-park/film-permits.html
 
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PKR said:
The bridge district contact is mary currie, send her a note and ask the fee per day.


http://www.us-parks.com/yosemite-national-park/film-permits.html
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The photo permits you're talking about for Yosemite and the GG Bridge are for commercial shoots, not artists or amateurs. It might well costs $2000+ to do a commercial shoot on the Golden Gate Bridge but no one shooting as a tourist or an artist will be asked to pay that.
 
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