paradoxbox
Well-known
I need a shutter escapement for an old Rolleicord II with an f4.5 triotar lens.
The escapement used to have a big coily hair spring that got damaged and I believe that without it, it may be difficult to get the camera's slow speeds working just right.
Anyone know of a source for these?
Looks like this: Note, not my camera but same escapement
The escapement used to have a big coily hair spring that got damaged and I believe that without it, it may be difficult to get the camera's slow speeds working just right.
Anyone know of a source for these?
Looks like this: Note, not my camera but same escapement
With the spring missing you won't have any slow speeds, at least below 1/15. I suspect you are going to have to source a parts shutter or camera from which to salvage either the spring or compete escapement. There may be a few repairers who have the part involved, the issue is whether they would be prepared to let you have it as of course they're no longer manufactured.
In your position I would establish the cameras to which the same shutter was fitted, and then seek out an example of the cheapest or least desirable type. This page contains some specifications including shutter types, however I would cross-check that with other sources before spending funds to verify the shutter model, in order to guarantee parts compatibility.
Regards
Brett
In your position I would establish the cameras to which the same shutter was fitted, and then seek out an example of the cheapest or least desirable type. This page contains some specifications including shutter types, however I would cross-check that with other sources before spending funds to verify the shutter model, in order to guarantee parts compatibility.
Regards
Brett
Dan Daniel
Well-known
there a shutter name on the front lens shroud- Compur? That really looks like a Compur escapement and shutter in the background, maybe a Compur Rapid with the booster spring.
Look for a pre-WWII Zeiss ikonta 120 camera with a similar shutter. I think Voigtlanders used Compurs,.
Flutots Cameras might have the part andb e willing to sell it to you. You'll need to provide a good amount of info- the diameter of the opening for the lens, camera info, names on camera, etc. Put the escapement on a millimeter ruler and take a photo. I've bought parts from her, but the more info the better.
http://flutotscamerarepair.com/
Look for a pre-WWII Zeiss ikonta 120 camera with a similar shutter. I think Voigtlanders used Compurs,.
Flutots Cameras might have the part andb e willing to sell it to you. You'll need to provide a good amount of info- the diameter of the opening for the lens, camera info, names on camera, etc. Put the escapement on a millimeter ruler and take a photo. I've bought parts from her, but the more info the better.
http://flutotscamerarepair.com/
paradoxbox
Well-known
Thanks for the link Dan, I've sent a message there asking for the part.
To be honest I'm not actually sure how much effect the particular hair spring in question has on the shutter speeds.
The photograph above is a little misleading, the arrow in that photograph is pointing to a different part.
The part that is broken on my shutter is just the loosely coiled hair spring. I don't know that it has any function other than to reverse the gears to their original position after the shutter is fired - but even without reversing them the shutter still functions. I believe that that particular spring is too loose in tension to have any bearing on the shutter speeds, I believe it's only there to ensure smooth engagement of the gears and stop them from rotating into un-smooth positions.
The piece above where the two lines are in this photo is the offending spring. It's just a very very loose coil of aluminum-foil like material.
To be honest I'm not actually sure how much effect the particular hair spring in question has on the shutter speeds.
The photograph above is a little misleading, the arrow in that photograph is pointing to a different part.
The part that is broken on my shutter is just the loosely coiled hair spring. I don't know that it has any function other than to reverse the gears to their original position after the shutter is fired - but even without reversing them the shutter still functions. I believe that that particular spring is too loose in tension to have any bearing on the shutter speeds, I believe it's only there to ensure smooth engagement of the gears and stop them from rotating into un-smooth positions.
The piece above where the two lines are in this photo is the offending spring. It's just a very very loose coil of aluminum-foil like material.
Dan Daniel
Well-known
Uh, that spring is critical for slow speeds. Nothing on a shutter is there simply to make gears go back home nicely after doing something. If that is all that is needed, they use the cocking action to make it happen. That spring powers the gears that drive the pin on the right against the speed cam.
paradoxbox
Well-known
Well, I am not so sure about that - when I originally took the shutter apart (it was already non functioning from neglect) the spring was still there, though somewhat degraded, it had kinks. But when I tested the shutter with that spring still in place, I observed that it did nothing but spin the gears in reverse, and the tension really IS too low to do anything - it literally applies no pressure on the gear train until the shutter is fired.
I am not 100% certain but I think that the tension on that spring is too weak to overcome the tension of the other springs in the shutter assembly or to have any effect on the slow speed. For example the other hair springs in the shutter assembly have enough power to throw the shutter speed cam off the camera and across the table if let go by accident, but the coil spring is so weak it can be stopped by blowing on it..!
I also found this post on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/rolleicord/discuss/72157622994267498/
rolleiflux says:
Hey, thanks for the reply.
I figured it out (sort of). There was a coil on the gearset that got bent out of shape that was preventing the gears from rotating freely, thereby inhibiting the last gear (quadrant wheel?) from engaging fully into its slot. I tried to straighten the coil, but in another case of blunderitis, I ripped the coil straight out. Because the quadrant wheel is spring-loaded, the gearset seemed to still function without the coil so I just put the rest of the shutter back together and tested it. Magically, most of the shutter speeds, especially the slow gears, tested out to be more accurate than before. I assume the coil plays a role in reliability and long-term accuracy, so I don't expect my newfound awesomeness to last too long.
Oh wells, lesson learned.
I'm curious - what damage might occur if the speed cam is not on when I cock the shutter? I'm guessing it has to do with the speed cam engaging something or another?
I am not 100% certain but I think that the tension on that spring is too weak to overcome the tension of the other springs in the shutter assembly or to have any effect on the slow speed. For example the other hair springs in the shutter assembly have enough power to throw the shutter speed cam off the camera and across the table if let go by accident, but the coil spring is so weak it can be stopped by blowing on it..!
I also found this post on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/rolleicord/discuss/72157622994267498/
rolleiflux says:
Hey, thanks for the reply.
I figured it out (sort of). There was a coil on the gearset that got bent out of shape that was preventing the gears from rotating freely, thereby inhibiting the last gear (quadrant wheel?) from engaging fully into its slot. I tried to straighten the coil, but in another case of blunderitis, I ripped the coil straight out. Because the quadrant wheel is spring-loaded, the gearset seemed to still function without the coil so I just put the rest of the shutter back together and tested it. Magically, most of the shutter speeds, especially the slow gears, tested out to be more accurate than before. I assume the coil plays a role in reliability and long-term accuracy, so I don't expect my newfound awesomeness to last too long.
Oh wells, lesson learned.
I'm curious - what damage might occur if the speed cam is not on when I cock the shutter? I'm guessing it has to do with the speed cam engaging something or another?