furcafe
Veteran
I'm not sure Sparrow/Stewart was attacking German wine or Germans, but I certainly don't see why you feel it necessary it to disparage Americans.
ferider said:
ferider
Veteran
furcafe said:
Well, read the thread, Stewart used drinking of German wine methaphorically for being parochial. Very clear, no interpretation on my part.
Why I react sensitively to that ? I live in the US and like it. But that includes living with stereotypes that I dislike.
Anything factually wrong with my statement ? If not, why does it "disparage Americans" ?
Here is an example quote as a background to my statement:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news_theswamp/2006/05/what_will_make_.html
Roland.
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Sparrow
Veteran
Roland
I was not making any value judgment on German wine, how long has parochial been a derogatory term? I used it in preference to narrow-minded to avoid a negative tone with reference to Magus
regards
I was not making any value judgment on German wine, how long has parochial been a derogatory term? I used it in preference to narrow-minded to avoid a negative tone with reference to Magus
regards
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Incidentally, I had some excellent Georgian wine over New Year's. It was a pleasant surprise and changed my outlook on FSU wines. I knew Moldavian sweetish wine and didn't particularly like it, but apparently there are some really nice sorts from the Caucasus.Nachkebia said:Magus if something I am behind you! just remember how mighty Caucasian mountains are
Now I wish it was easier to get some here in Germany; if you ask a wine dealer if he imports Georgian wine they usually look as if you asked them for soap.
Philipp
ferider
Veteran
Sparrow said:
I guess I over-reacted, Stewart. 2nd time that happened with you, I apologize. Wish I could meet and have a beer with you ...
Roland.
Sparrow
Veteran
ferider said:
Don’t worry about it, I’m a Yorkshireman being blunt is seen as a virtue around here we don’t get upset easily, I bring it on myself anyway, I get misunderstood trying not to be too direct
…………… however first round’s on you if we do ever meet, that's another Yorkshire trait!
furcafe
Veteran
Yes, but that doesn't mean he was maligning Germans or German wine, only that he thought that Magus should expand his horizons to wine (& lenses) from other countries. Even if he was somehow attacking Germans &/or German wine, I would hardly say that that is a "typical American stereotype," considering that most Americans, to engage in my own stereotyping, are not wine afficionados & those that are, IME @ least, know full well that Germany produces fine wines.
Which brings me to your statement that the U.S. is "a country where > 90% of the population does not speak a 2nd language and has never traveled outside the US," which I found disparaging because you clearly intended it as an indication that Americans are "parochial." I'm not sure where you got your figures, but I would have to disagree. In the 2000 census, 1/5 of Americans spoke a language other than English @ home (& that has almost certainly increased in the past 7 years) & IIRC (as a stereotypically lazy American I don't have a cite @ hand) the State Dept. estimates that over 1/4 of Americans have passports. True, we are not as multilingual & widely traveled as most Europeans (though multilingualism varies considerably among European countries), but we happen to live in a much larger country & a good percentage of us (about 10%) are immigrants & many more are descended from immigrants. I'm not saying that there aren't parochial people in the U.S., only that it's unfair & somewhat insulting to characterize the entire country that way.
My apologies to Roel for the OT discussion.
Which brings me to your statement that the U.S. is "a country where > 90% of the population does not speak a 2nd language and has never traveled outside the US," which I found disparaging because you clearly intended it as an indication that Americans are "parochial." I'm not sure where you got your figures, but I would have to disagree. In the 2000 census, 1/5 of Americans spoke a language other than English @ home (& that has almost certainly increased in the past 7 years) & IIRC (as a stereotypically lazy American I don't have a cite @ hand) the State Dept. estimates that over 1/4 of Americans have passports. True, we are not as multilingual & widely traveled as most Europeans (though multilingualism varies considerably among European countries), but we happen to live in a much larger country & a good percentage of us (about 10%) are immigrants & many more are descended from immigrants. I'm not saying that there aren't parochial people in the U.S., only that it's unfair & somewhat insulting to characterize the entire country that way.
My apologies to Roel for the OT discussion.
ferider said:
Roel
Well-known
Oepsss..Roland: Carefull...! There is
German beer, US beer, Dutch beer....
I'll take a Heineken (internationally positioned as premium, in Holland 'just' a beer) Cheers guys!
Roel
Shoot first, drink later..
German beer, US beer, Dutch beer....
I'll take a Heineken (internationally positioned as premium, in Holland 'just' a beer) Cheers guys!
Roel
Shoot first, drink later..
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Roel
Well-known
which B/W film
which B/W film
Now is there anybody who will recommend a B/W film to use with that 40mm 1.4?
which B/W film
Now is there anybody who will recommend a B/W film to use with that 40mm 1.4?
shenkerian
Established
Hi Roland, the article you cite states that 92% of all US college students never take a foreign language class. Using that statistic to state that over 90% of the general population does not speak a second language is, to say nothing else, deeply flawed.ferider said:
To be fair, though, the actual figure is still over 80% as of 2003:
http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/06statab/pop.pdf
Furcafe, I'd be curious to see where you saw that 20% of the US spoke a language other than English at home in 2000.
And my apologies as well for continuing the OT conversation.
Sparrow
Veteran
Roel said:
HP5+…………..the Chardonnay of films
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Roel said:
The 40/1,4SC is a good choice. It will bring up the 50mm frame, but that can be fixed easily with a small file or a Dremel cutter. I find it easier to shoot with a slightly "pessimistic" angle ( you get marginally less than you anticipate from the frames) than the "optimistic" angle that the 50 frames give you. As for film choice, my personal favourite is Tri-X, mainly because I have been using it for 50 years ( hate admitting to that!). Any of the 400 speed films are good. Tmax 400 is a bit tricky as it does not handle high contrast well. The Tmax films are good for controlled light situations but until we get a switch than can dim the sun to more managable intensity, I go for Tri-X/HP-5/Delta/Neopan. Run it in Rodinal to get distinct grain= I use a 1; 75/ 15 minutes or if you really want grain 1:25 for 7 minutes. watch for extreme contrast with Rodinal. It is easy to "fry" the film if you are not careful.
Some of the less known films like Foma/Efke/Lucky work very well too. To get sharp grain and good shadows I tend to use these films in home-made Beutler developer. Tight grain and with the 40/1,4 SC you also get easily printed shadows as it blocks the deep shadows less than a multicoated lens. Barcelona would be a nice place to shoot. Hanging out on "Ramblas" and also trying to get a good shot of Gaudi's masterpiece. Beats the outlook for more rain here and 1/60 @ f4 type of light. Oh well, spring will come shortly.
ferider
Veteran
... at home. If they actually speak/write English (fluently, a _second_ language) is another question. As long as you can pass a driving exam at the DMV in a foreign language I will doubt that. The main other language spoken is Spanish, followed by Chinese, I believe. But if you look at American-born Americans or languages studied by college students (see my above quote) it looks different.
-------
Sorry, Roel, I only shoot color.
Roland.
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furcafe
Veteran
I got that from the 2000 Census. I stand corrected as the figure is actually 18%, not 20%.
http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-29.pdf
http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/c2kbr-29.pdf
shenkerian said:
shenkerian
Established
Interesting read, furcafe. Thanks!
Roel, I'd suggest Tri-X or BW400CN, depending on whether you're going to develop film yourself.
Roel, I'd suggest Tri-X or BW400CN, depending on whether you're going to develop film yourself.
furcafe
Veteran
This is not specific to the 40/1.4 Nokton, but if you intend to scan your film, I've found the Fuji Neopan emulsions to be somewhat easier to scan (same is true to some extent w/the modern "T-grain" stuff like Kodak T-Max 400 & Ilford Delta 400 v. Tri-X & HP5+).
Roel said:
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furcafe
Veteran
I agree, though you didn't say "fluently" in your original statement. And I would agree w/you (& anybody else) who says that Americans should try to learn more languages, if only because it's helpful in business/foreign affairs. However, I still don't think it's fair to characterize all Americans as parochial based on their foreign language skills & travel histories. It's quite possible to speak foreign languages & travel abroad & still be narrow-minded.
ferider said:
ferider
Veteran
I did delete the post you quoted to end the OT discussion ...
I did not write or think that. I was opposing a stereotype.
How subtle.
furcafe said:
I did not write or think that. I was opposing a stereotype.
furcafe said:
How subtle.
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furcafe
Veteran
Well then we're good. Sorry for over-reacting, I was just opposing what I thought was an incorrect stereotype about Americans.
You can have a beer (of whatever nationality) on me if you ever come out to DC.
You can have a beer (of whatever nationality) on me if you ever come out to DC.
ferider said:
ferider
Veteran
Actually out there I probably will have a Sam Adams ....
But, ever since my divorce, I don't drink with lawyers J/K
Roland.
But, ever since my divorce, I don't drink with lawyers
J/KRoland.