Post your drum scans (aka the first official Drum Scanners thread)

Lovely images Margus.

Well, it never rains but it pours :-(

The saga of the Scanmate 11000 continues:

I finally managed to get a 36x24mm negative scanned at 3850dpi which gave me a 105MB file, as this was just a trial negative I then chose a nice 35mm negative to try to get a good scan from and mounted it on the drum, I then attached the drum to the hub and started a new preview and the drum came off the hub during the scanning process and suffered some scratches (not sure why this happened as the drum was definitely turned fully to engage it), if this wasn't bad enough, the hub will not now lock when the lid is opened and I am unable to remount the drum.

Fortunately the drum was not my best drum although It did not have much wear or blemishes, but I am at a loss as to where I go from here. The amount of time and money I have wasted trying to get this to work and as soon as I seem to sort out one issue something else comes up.
 
Ed Bray said:
Fortunately the drum was not my best drum although It did not have much wear or blemishes, but I am at a loss as to where I go from here. The amount of time and money I have wasted trying to get this to work and as soon as I seem to sort out one issue something else comes up.
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Ouch!

Pretty sure it wasn't all the way locked when it came loose since there's no other way for it to come loose. Can happen to anybody though. Always do it with drum-lock, firm handtwist and always visually check the line markings (check the hub vs drum marking) making sure that it's all the way in before closing the lid and starting to operate with the scanner.

The locking fault: does the hub go left (into presumable locking position) after you push the left button? If the drum lock (activated with the the left button on the scanner while the lid is open) doesn't work anymore (the hub just rotates while all-the-way-in left side?) you need to open the front panel of the scanner and see if the simple mechanism is jammed or damaged. Mine was loose when I got it and I needed to re-tighten it. The drum locking mechanism is a very simple system with just one bit with spring that goes into the hub's hole when it goes all-the-way-left. You just turn the hub with your hand till you find the locking position (basically finding the particular hole position for the springed bit to jump-into it = hub locked, a very simple system).

If the scratches aren't bad you can probably polish them out, check for special paste's (Prazio maybe?) and cloth combos for acryl glass fine polishing. Also when you learn wet-mounting in the future the small scratches on drum or film will not be of much of concern.

Looking it from positive side: at least you're finally getting it to scan. Take your time and don't rush, those mammoths are slow but very fine machines if you get them work and master their elaborate operating techniques.

Good luck,
Margus
 
tsiklonaut said:
Ouch!

The locking fault: does the hub go left (into presumable locking position) after you push the left button? If the drum lock (activated with the the left button on the scanner while the lid is open) doesn't work anymore (the hub just rotates while all-the-way-in left side?) you need to open the front panel of the scanner and see if the simple mechanism is jammed or damaged. Mine was loose when I got it and I needed to re-tighten it. The drum locking mechanism is a very simple system with just one bit with spring that goes into the hub's hole when it goes all-the-way-left. You just turn the hub with your hand till you find the locking position (basically finding the particular hole position for the springed bit to jump-into it = hub locked, a very simple system).

If the scratches aren't bad you can probably polish them out, check for special paste's (Prazio maybe?) and cloth combos for acryl glass fine polishing. Also when you learn wet-mounting in the future the small scratches on drum or film will not be of much of concern.

Looking it from positive side: at least you're finally getting it to scan. Take your time and don't rush, those mammoths are slow but very fine machines if you get them work and master their elaborate operating techniques.

Good luck,
Margus
Click to expand...

Thanks Margus,

Yes, the drum goes all the way left, just doesn't lock (spins round and round as you say), I will have a go at taking the side panel off tomorrow and seeing if I can fix it.

The scanner seems to be scanning up to a maximum of circa 4000dpi on a 35mm frame, but less on a MF or LF frame, is this what you have found?

I had the Color Quartet Manual printed into a book so am starting to follow their recommendations, but I can't see how I can get the scanner to scan at higher levels than 4000dpi.

I would like a look at the owners operating manual for the Scanmate 11000 if anyone has access to a digital copy or if anyone has a paper copy they would be willing to photocopy/scan that would be good too, of course I would cover all costs involved.
 
Ed Bray said:
Thanks Margus,

Yes, the drum goes all the way left, just doesn't lock (spins round and round as you say), I will have a go at taking the side panel off tomorrow and seeing if I can fix it.

The scanner seems to be scanning up to a maximum of circa 4000dpi on a 35mm frame, but less on a MF or LF frame, is this what you have found?

I had the Color Quartet Manual printed into a book so am starting to follow their recommendations, but I can't see how I can get the scanner to scan at higher levels than 4000dpi.

I would like a look at the owners operating manual for the Scanmate 11000 if anyone has access to a digital copy or if anyone has a paper copy they would be willing to photocopy/scan that would be good too, of course I would cover all costs involved.
Click to expand...

Whad CQ version you have?

The latest CQ 5.3 has just one limit (it's actually a software bug): it scans anything in any format if it's not bigger than 10600px in 16bit or 20000px longest side in 8bit mode or not bigger than 2GB per file. Bigger than creates a damaged file (a software bug that ScanView aknowledged but never repaired before it's shutdown) so if you want to do it bigger you have to do it in multiple slices. Unlike most scanners, the film plane geometry on the drum scanners is close to perfect (i.e. even much better than those of highly acclaimed Imacon/Hasselblad's "virtual drum" technology), especially when in tight wet-mount so doing multiple slices and later merging is quite possible without any merging geometry complexity involved.

A full 35mm frame should be possible around 7500dpi in 16bit one file no problem, in 8bit you can use the full 11000dpi if your scanner is well maintained, optically mint and mechanically perfectly calibrated to perform to the best of its ability.

PM me your e-mail, I'll send you the SM11Ks field service technical manual and few words of warnings before you open it not to do any further damage ;)

Margus
 
Thanks Margus for all the help.

Thanks for all the help, it turns out the pin was indeed slightly bent and sticking in its housing. A couple of swift taps with a hammer and all worked well again.

I put the scanner back together but I am completely disillusioned with it, I am not getting any scans larger than 4000dpi (35mm frame size) without the scanner defaulting in an error, I have tried 4 different SCSI cards (all show okay according to SCSI probe), 4 different terminators (2 active and 2 passive) and 3 different leads (1x 1mtr and 2x 2mts versions) all seem to work okay and the scanner seems to be controlled by the software before it fails.

I have tried both Windows XP and Mac systems, (in fact I have bought 2x G4 Higher specced powermacs) as well as the G4 Powermac that came with the scanner.

I have also used both ColorTrio V2 and Color Quartet Version 5.22 (trial) and Version 4 (with dongle).

All will do a full preview and all will fail on an error if I try to go above this 4000dpi level on a 35mm sized frame.

I am pretty sure now that the scanner has an internal fault somewhere and is incapable of processing large files at high bit depths and as such is pretty useless as it currently is.
 
Guys, I run it with mac osx 10.5 intel based promac and cq 5.3 scsi to firewire adapter and everything works fine. I can scan my xpan films at 8000dpi without problem. Yes cq 5.3 has a bug but I think it is not a problem because you dont get any detail more... Also when scanning 4x5 films there is any lenses can resolve more than scanner can with those limits. In 4x5 format you pull all out at 2000-3000 dpi. I have 4x5 scans also at 4000 dpi made with aztek premier and there´s no more details and if there is you dont see them on the print. It is better to make scan at bigger than too small aperture = smooth and clean scan. You can sharpen it later when make a print. For me its more important there is great tonalities and right colors, you know what I mean.

Toni
 
I don't agree at all.
With the SM11K, if you set 11'000 you actually get about 180 lp/mm x 125 lp/mm of actual resolving power (done the tests, posted the results).
But if you set a lower scan resolution, you get proportionally lower actual resolving power.
So if you set for example 5'000, you don't have enough resolving power to properly capture a good 120 slide. Again: been there, done that, have the proofs.
For 4x5" you may get away setting 4'000, but only if your originals are not too sharp.
I routinely scan in 10% overlapped strips (from 6'000 to 11'000 ppi depending on the quality of the originals) staying within the 10'600 pixel limit and 2GB file limit, and then combine in Photoshop ("photomerge" command).
No issues, great quality.
 
Have you tried polycarbonate foil (used on displays) instead of mylar? I've got samples (6 eur per m2) and they seem optically super clear.
 
Ed Bray said:
I have tried both Windows XP and Mac systems, (in fact I have bought 2x G4 Higher specced powermacs) as well as the G4 Powermac that came with the scanner.
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That's a pity then since could be anything. Just in case I'd check all the fuses in the scanner as well and inspect all the boards visually and carefully move them back-forward a couple of times in their sockets to be sure they all have good connections.

In any case I'd consider sending it to ABC-Scan Denmark for an overhaul. It won't be cheap (probably some 1000-1500EUR range), but in return you should get back a fresh fully calibrated and finely-tuned drum scanner ready for years of service.


Fernando2 said:
I don't agree at all.
With the SM11K, if you set 11'000 you actually get about 180 lp/mm x 125 lp/mm of actual resolving power (done the tests, posted the results).
But if you set a lower scan resolution, you get proportionally lower actual resolving power.
So if you set for example 5'000, you don't have enough resolving power to properly capture a good 120 slide. Again: been there, done that, have the proofs.
For 4x5" you may get away setting 4'000, but only if your originals are not too sharp.
I routinely scan in 10% overlapped strips (from 6'000 to 11'000 ppi depending on the quality of the originals) staying within the 10'600 pixel limit and 2GB file limit, and then combine in Photoshop ("photomerge" command).
No issues, great quality.
Click to expand...

Ditto here. Drum scanners geometry and pixel-by-pixel scanning design is close to ideal platform for merging multiple slices when you need to. No unequal illumination, corner distorion or geometry etc issues as with the most other design scanners or dSLR-scanning rigs have.

I thought about those resolution numbers:

125 lp/mm should make actual 6250 dpi +
180 lp/mm should make actual 9000 dpi capable scanner

That's pretty darn good for a mere 'desktop scanner' the SM11K is to score that close to the quoted maximum specification. I know mammoth sized Heidelberg Tango, despite also quoted as "11,000 dpi capable", resolves actual 5000-6000 range from what I've read, since it has a very large minimum aperture, around 10 microns if I remember correctly (SM11K has 3 microns).

Yet that considered I was surprised a highest end medium format dSLR with Leaf APTUS 12/12R (a "mere" €24,000 / $31,000 digital back!) behind a high end 1:1 Zeiss 120mm macro Planar lens produced noticably inferior results to a Tango drum scan. I'd say the interpolation and Nyquist does play part in the "numbers" game, hence drum scan dpi/ppi numbers don't say too much about the actual image quality, it's also the "PMT-rendering" and "look" playing its part. Overall I find it's very hard to judge "real life" performance of equipment other than just looking at results and making personal conclusions IMHO:

http://www.eprepservices.com/public/Leaf_vs_Tango_1.jpg
http://www.eprepservices.com/public/Leaf_vs_Tango_2.jpg
http://www.eprepservices.com/public/Leaf_vs_Tango_3.jpg

With all the credits going to the author, sourced from here.

Cheers,
Margus
 
jzagaja said:
Have you tried polycarbonate foil (used on displays) instead of mylar? I've got samples (6 eur per m2) and they seem optically super clear.
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Jack, sounds very interesting! That's something I need to do a research on. :)

How thick and flexible are they?
 
In any case I'd consider sending it to ABC-Scan Denmark for an overhaul... should get back a fresh fully calibrated and finely-tuned drum scanner ready for years of service.
Click to expand...

Be careful - I've spoke to a men that bought SM11K from them and he has problem with edge banding.
 

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jzagaja said:
Be careful - I've spoke to a men that bought SM11K from them and he has problem with edge banding.
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Ahh, got to be careful indeed then. As I understand this is mostly DC-motor+bearings issue and it's around 400EUR to replace if I remember Fernando did it and the problems were gone.

I've sent my SM11K control board for "lines-in-shadow removal" modification to ABC-Scan and I was very happy with their service and communications.

In Ed's case what I'd hope from ABC is perfectly biased PMTs, aligned optics and most of all: stable electronic boards and stable running.


jzagaja said:
They are 0,175mm thick and flexible. Comes with protection foil.
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Sounds good, especially the price seems right since you can buy it in m2. I'd like to thnk they're very scratch resistant since they're made for monitors that people tend like to "touch" with their finger nails on pointing things.

I must do some research how are their optical properties (i.e. any density variations or "faults") and if naphta-based mounting liquids have any reactions with them (i.e. slowly solve them) or not. If all works out it seems to be an attractive alternative.

Aztek mylar is fantastic quality, but it gets scratched/fogged pretty quick when swiping off the bubbles in the wet-mount process hence mylar consumption is higher than I expected and it ain't cheap.
 
I have stripes in shadows - how expensive is the modification? Also one of my board is not recognized by the PC or Mac. Sometimes it's cheaper buy another SM11k than send to ABC :)
 
jzagaja said:
I have stripes in shadows - how expensive is the modification? Also one of my board is not recognized by the PC or Mac. Sometimes it's cheaper buy another SM11k then send to ABC :)
Click to expand...

Yep, most "stock" SM11K have this quirk. Buying another scanner usually doesn't help since most of them are in "stock" configuration as they came from the factory.

The modification price from ABC is exacly €375 + shipping. You have to ship the board-only in antistatic bag safely packed.

Margus
 
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