Darren Abate
Professional Shooter
So far it looks like the price is going to be between 2000 and 3000 USD, to which I say, "Nuts!"
I already have a Mamiya 7 II, which I bought used EX+ for 1200.00 with the 80/4, so a price point of twice that amount for a fixed lens knob folder is insane to me.
Plus, the 7 II is a camera that simply can't be beat quality-wise IMO, so the only reason for me to buy the new Fuji would be to take advantage of it's compact travel size when the situation calls for it. That being my main buying point, I wouldn't go over 750.00 for it, considering what it is, technically.
My .02...
I already have a Mamiya 7 II, which I bought used EX+ for 1200.00 with the 80/4, so a price point of twice that amount for a fixed lens knob folder is insane to me.
Plus, the 7 II is a camera that simply can't be beat quality-wise IMO, so the only reason for me to buy the new Fuji would be to take advantage of it's compact travel size when the situation calls for it. That being my main buying point, I wouldn't go over 750.00 for it, considering what it is, technically.
My .02...
kuzano
Veteran
Or the fellow who bought a dog for $2500 because when it retrieved ducks, it walked/ran across the top of the water to the downed duck, picked it up and ran back across the top of the water.
Showing it to his hunting buddy, the buddy admonished him with, "You got taken to the cleaners".
The fellow retorted, "TAKEN.. what do you mean?"
The hunting buddy pointed out, "Hey, it's a hunting dog and it can't even Swim.... C'mon!!!"
The new folder better, "for crying out loud" swim if they charge 2 grand for it.
chippy
foo was here
lol yeah...
the dog and cats comment made me laugh, and this is apt too and raised a laugh. it reminds me of my mate that years ago, when shooting and hunting was an acceptable activity, had an expensive hunting dog which he was proud to brag about....the trouble was the dog never did fetch any ducks for him. His aim was so bad he never could hit a moving target haha
at that price i will probably just turn the aperture scale on my old folders by hand
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
Somewhat OT: it bugs me when people say "price point". Just say price.
gdi
Veteran
Humm, $3000 for the Fuji or just stick with a $10 Isolette?
Decisions decisions...
Decisions decisions...
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
What is that very specific connotation? Not being a Japanese businessperson, I'm unaware of it.
EDIT: I re-read your post. Is price point the goal sale price that a company works toward when developing a product? The term still seems superfluous to me. Another case of folks using more words than necessary to try and sound clever.
Ok, that's all I'll say on the topic. Sorry for the thread hijack!
EDIT: I re-read your post. Is price point the goal sale price that a company works toward when developing a product? The term still seems superfluous to me. Another case of folks using more words than necessary to try and sound clever.
Ok, that's all I'll say on the topic. Sorry for the thread hijack!
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Avotius
Some guy
And to think I thought I might be the only one who thought it might be plastic....
Anyway 2000 dollars is insane, I would much rather have a good used rolleiflex with a 2.8 planar then that....
But one has to wonder what the hold up is, no word at all about what is really going to happen with this camera. Maybe they dont like the reaction to the possible price and are retooling it.
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
I don't think it's fair to criticize Fuji for failing to deliver a new camera at a used price.
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P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
If the 667 goes over $1500AUD, I am not a buyer. I will buy a Bessa III and a Welta 6X6 folder and keep the change. I am sure there will be buyers at any price, but if Cosina cannot keep the price within reason, there will be a lot prospective buyers that will pass.
Simply making the lens f2.8 would make me consider spending a bit more money.
Simply making the lens f2.8 would make me consider spending a bit more money.
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Nando
Well-known
I'm hoping for $1500 but I think $2000 is fair and realistic. I too would look at used Rolleiflex 2.8 model. A warranty period longer than the usual 1-year would sweeten the deal for me.
jwhitley
Established
That's an interesting point; the extra two-thirds stop would be nice. I wonder how much impact that would have on the weight and handling of the camera?
aizan
Veteran
front heavy.
P. Lynn Miller
Well-known
Not significantly front heavy, there are plenty of vintage folders with an 80mm f2.8 lens. And I have not heard any complaints from users.
From my perspective, when I pay more that $1000 or so for a piece of photography equipment, it has to earn me money or be unique and specific for an application, such as a super-telephoto lens, studio lights, etc. The CV 667 is not that unique, there are plenty of folders and MF cameras that will do the same job as well or better for less if the price of the 667 goes over $1500.
From my perspective, when I pay more that $1000 or so for a piece of photography equipment, it has to earn me money or be unique and specific for an application, such as a super-telephoto lens, studio lights, etc. The CV 667 is not that unique, there are plenty of folders and MF cameras that will do the same job as well or better for less if the price of the 667 goes over $1500.
historicist
Well-known
I think precisely the fact that it isn't a Mamiya 7 or a Hasselblad 500 or a Rolleiflex gives it a value which translates to a higher price. All of those cameras are great, and have features that the Fuji/Voigtlander doesn't.
But none of them are as small or easily transportable as a folder. I own a 2.8F and a 500C and both are a bit of a hassle to travel with or slip in a bag in case you might need them.
A folder, even one with a fixed lens and knob wind, thus has a particular value for people who value portability. I guess there must be a reasonable number of these people, as all half way decent medium folders with coupled rangefinders are pretty expensive, especially so when they are mostly very old, potentially troublesome and difficult to get repaired.
And if someone wants a more modern medium format folder with a built in light meter, more recent coating etc., there are only two choices - the Plaubel Makina 67 series or the Fuji GS645S, both of which have pretty bad reputations for reliability and are pretty expensive; the latter is 6x4.5 which is a bit undesirable.
1500 Euro sounds about right for a new price in Germany (in comparison a Plaubel Makina 67 will usually be a 700-800 Euro on ebay, come with no guarantee and be more than 20 years old) though of course I wish it would be cheaper and can't afford one at that price.
But none of them are as small or easily transportable as a folder. I own a 2.8F and a 500C and both are a bit of a hassle to travel with or slip in a bag in case you might need them.
A folder, even one with a fixed lens and knob wind, thus has a particular value for people who value portability. I guess there must be a reasonable number of these people, as all half way decent medium folders with coupled rangefinders are pretty expensive, especially so when they are mostly very old, potentially troublesome and difficult to get repaired.
And if someone wants a more modern medium format folder with a built in light meter, more recent coating etc., there are only two choices - the Plaubel Makina 67 series or the Fuji GS645S, both of which have pretty bad reputations for reliability and are pretty expensive; the latter is 6x4.5 which is a bit undesirable.
1500 Euro sounds about right for a new price in Germany (in comparison a Plaubel Makina 67 will usually be a 700-800 Euro on ebay, come with no guarantee and be more than 20 years old) though of course I wish it would be cheaper and can't afford one at that price.
Fred Burton
Well-known
I guess, though, that any folder would be inherently less reliable than a Hassy milled from solid metal. It probably is just a price you pay for portability.
chippy
foo was here
i feel this comment undermines much of your post, which otherwise made some ok points...this logic doesnt work for me at all. one could say the camera on my phone , a disposible, a point and shoot or holga ect are not hasselblad or rollei's either , which may or may not give them a different use or vaule as well. but hardly equates or translates to a reason for a higher price.
at 1500 euro it will lose a lot a sales to the mamiya, frankly, if you check the measurements, the 667 is not that much smaller anyway, particularly as the mamiya has interchangable lens. at 1500 euro one can buy an awfull lot of camera elsewhere
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historicist
Well-known
Quote:
Originally Posted by historicist
I think precisely the fact that it isn't a Mamiya 7 or a Hasselblad 500 or a Rolleiflex gives it a value which translates to a higher price. All of those cameras are great, and have features that the Fuji/Voigtlander doesn't.
.
i feel this comment undermines much of your post, which otherwise made some ok points...this logic doesnt work for me at all. one could say the camera on my phone , a disposible, a point and shoot or holga ect are not hasselblad or rollei's either , which may or may not give them a different use or vaule as well. but hardly equates or translates to a reason for a higher price.
Perhaps I should have stopped with value, i.e. that for some people a portable camera has a value to them more than a less portable camera, even though it might be better in other ways.
In some situations even a mobile phone camera or disposable might have more value to me than my Rollei, maybe if I was going somewhere dangerous or just wanted to relax and take snapshots, but this wouldn't translate into me being willing to pay a higher price because if all I want is a cheap and simple way of taking a picture there are any number of suitable cameras I could buy.
But if someone is in the small niche of happening to want an especially portable medium format camera then they don't really have any options. Maybe apart from the folders I mentioned there's the Mamiya 6MF, which is also expensive second hand, has a known problem with the advance mechanism, and will probably be very awkward to get repaired at some point in the future.
Caught between these relatively expensive, yet potentially unreliable second hand cameras, and only one new, guaranteed offering, they might well be prepared to pay as much as a Mamiya 7 would cost.
Of course, if they are prepared to compromise even a bit on prtability there is a much larger choice of cameras out there that are still relatively small, from TLRs through the Hasselblads to the Mamiya 7 which will offer advantages in price or flexibility, and then a high priced Voigtlander 667 will be very hard to justify.
I can't afford this camera and won't be buying it unless it ends up a lot cheaper than I think it will, but I can see the appeal. A lot of the portability of the camera is in the shape, how well it slips into bags, doesn't catch on anything etc., and even if the Mamiya 7 is about the same weight and volume, the protruding lens will make it more awkward. My Rollei is in weight and volume terms not so different from a good 35mm SLR, but I personally find it quite awkward to carry around and pack in bags because of the shape.
In the hypothetical case I had the money and the 667 was in the same price as a Mamiya 7, I would buy the 667 for sure. I guess it just depends on what your personal preferences in a camera are, whether the 667 is worth buying at a particular price or not.
Fred Burton
Well-known
I just wonder with the economic situation whether they will actually go into production with the camera?
jwhitley
Established
Or perhaps just delay production until the economy recovers to support the effort. If there is to be a delay, I do hope that Fuji/Cosina respect their customer base by letting us know if/when a delay is decided.
Squonk
Established
Just today I saw a full page ad for this camera in the December issue of the German fotoMAGAZIN. No mention of a price though...