questions before get the VM 21mm/f4 Pancake

[newfinder]

I really want to have a 21mm lens for my R2m after the 35f1.2. pleaes help me on these questions before putting an order:

1. Is the 'dark angle' obvious on voigtlander's 21mm?
2. Is the viewfinder for this 21mm/f4 accurate and works the same way as the original body viewfinder on focusing? (haven't used an extra viewfinder before, sorry🙂)
3. what is the price difference between the SC and non-SC version?
4. What about shooting positive film with the SC 21mm? Is it 'not acceptable' on the color side?

Thank you!

 

[capitalK]

I use one occasionally on my R2A.

1) I'm not sure what that means.

2) No, the external viewfinder is for framing only but the DOF is so wide on the 21mm that it's very easy to scale focus, especially if you stop down.

 

[Thardy]

Dark angle, do you mean vignette? As in dark corners due to light fall off?

The 21 for M mount supposedly does not come with a viewfinder because it is meant to be used with R4a which has the wide frame lines, and I guess it can be focused.

The 21 in LTM comes with a viewfinder, and is cheaper.

Here is a link to some photos shot with the 21.


http://www.flickr.com/groups/skopar21/


You might want to check out cameraquest.com for accurate information.

 

[newfinder]

I use one occasionally on my R2A.

1) I'm not sure what that means.

2) No, the external viewfinder is for framing only but the DOF is so wide on the 21mm that it's very easy to scale focus, especially if you stop down.

Thank you!
1）I mean the dark in the four corners of the photo by wide angle lens. Have seen some review on this 21mm with RD1s, the darkness in the corners are very serious, but seems to be OK on some film samples...
2) Then I have to focus with the camear viewfinder, and framing on the external viewfinder, right?

 

[capitalK]

Ahh, I understand what you mean now. I find that it does vignettes slightly.

Here's a few of my examples with this lens

 

[newfinder]

The 21 for M mount supposedly does not come with a viewfinder because it is meant to be used with R4a which has the wide frame lines, and I guess it can be focused.

The 21 in LTM comes with a viewfinder, and is cheaper.

You might want to check out cameraquest.com for accurate information.

Thank you!
Do you mean the 21 for M haven't had an viewfinder yet? And it can be replaced by the viewfinder of the old 21/LTM?

I don't know why I couldn't open Cameraquest these days... It's good website. I can only visit photovillage.com, but obviously it doesn't provide enough info🙂

Nice photos, makes me more anxious to get the 21mm now😀

 

[newfinder]

Any idea on SC lens with color films?
2) With R2M, I have to focus with the camear viewfinder, and framing on the external viewfinder, right?

 

[capitalK]

Yes you focus through the camera viewfinder, but like I said earlier the camera has a wide depth of field, especially stopped down, so at f/8 you can focus hyperfocally and everything from 3 ft to infinity will be acceptably in focus.

 

[newfinder]

Yes you focus through the camera viewfinder, but like I said earlier the camera has a wide depth of field, especially stopped down, so at f/8 you can focus hyperfocally and everything from 3 ft to infinity will be acceptably in focus.

Yes, you are right. Honestly I hate too many accessories. If I can estimate the frame of 21mm on my R2M, I'd rather ignore the viewfiner🙂

 

[capitalK]

I've been able to aproximate with a 24mm without losing too much but I think the viewfinder is closer to a 28mm. 21mm would probably be too wide to guess with but a lot of my shots with it were set at hyperfocal and shot from the hip so the camera viewfinder may give you enough depending on your shooting style.

 

[biomed]

Buy the LTM (older) version. It includes the viewfinder. I believe the LTM version with an adapter is less expensive than the newer M mount (especially if you factor in the viewfinder). AFIK both are optically the same.

 

[newfinder]

Buy the LTM (older) version. It includes the viewfinder. I believe the LTM version with an adapter is less expensive than the newer M mount (especially if you factor in the viewfinder). AFIK both are optically the same.

I agree, with less price, you can even get the LTM SC version with VF and more🙂

So is there any difference on optical quality between these two versions? LTM and VM

Thanks!

 

[Tom A]

The optical formula is the same for the LTM version as for the P version (m-mount). The main difference. apart from the mount, is the hood on the P version allows 39mm filters to be used with the hood in place. On the LTM version you have to either use the lens without a hood - or screw the hood into the filter front ring (can vignet of you do that). The aperture control on the 21f4 P version also has the small "ears" on it, which makes it easier to operate. I have both versions, but I tend to favor the P version because of the aperture control. I use mine on Bessa R4's so the finder issue is not a factor.

 

[Ken Ford]

Tom, how is your 21/4 wide open?

 

[Tom A]

The 21f4 P (or LTM) is good wide open. It is not as sharp as the 21f4.5 C Biogon - but then nothing is!
The 21f4P will do a decent job at f4 - but it really comes into play at around f8.

 

[Ken Ford]

Thank you!

 

[Al Kaplan]

A 21mm lens will be in focus at f/11 from less than two feet to infinity when focussed at 3 ft. 4 inches according to the scale on my Super Angulon. Set the focus at 8 ft. and you'll be in focus from infinity to a bit under 5 ft. at f/4. Sometimes I think that I should just tape over the camera's eye piece so I won't be tempted to use the rangefinder at all. You're just wasting time with it. Just use the viewfinder. You want 16 inches to infinity? St focus at about 30 inches. The lens doesn't even show the near distance at f/22. The VC finder is a lot better than the Leitz if you're not afraid to be seen in public with a plastic finder. The black finder looks really cool on a chrome M with a chrome Super Angulon because it matches the genuine original Leitz black plastic SA hood.

 

[Ken Ford]

I'm not worried about DOF at all. (I've always found focusing was optional with my Nikkor 20.) I'm more concerned about wide-open optical performance.

 

[newfinder]

The main difference. apart from the mount, is the hood on the P version allows 39mm filters to be used with the hood in place. On the LTM version you have to either use the lens without a hood - or screw the hood into the filter front ring (can vignet of you do that)..

Thank you Tom! I've just placed an order for a 21f4 LTM, it is much cheaper than the P one, and as I don't have a R4, the P version + VF cost a lot lot more than the LTM version🙂

So as you have mentioned about the lens hood issue on LTM, do you mean I need to get rid of the hood, and screw the filter in, then put the hood back but only on the filter ring? I'm a little confused, if I can put the hood back on the filter, then the diameter of hood should allow me to put it deeper into its original position... ? (I might start to understand what you mean, as the picture of the 21mm lens hood looks like a screw mounted one..., so is the LH-1 hood another solution for this issue?)

 

[ferider]

I hate to correct you, Tom, but the LTM version that I had worked fine with hood and B+W filter. Much like my other color skopars (35 and 28). Maybe the filter you tried ?

Newfinder, for some reason the vignetting is much more prominent on digital cameras. When you use film it is barely noticeable, in my experience. The LH-1 hood is good but big, and I found in practice one rarely needs it. Also, the lens only comes multi-coated.

Best,

Roland.