Shoot a camera, not a gun

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E__WOK said:
What exactly do you mean by 'assault rifles should not be sold over the counter'?

Who is allowed to buy them?
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In my state there is no waiting period for gun purchasers, nor registration required. One could purchase a rifle like the one used in the Connecticut or Colorado shootings with little hassle. If you pass the background check, you can buy them over the counter.

The lack of a waiting period is terrible imo.
 
Jubb Jubb said:
I don't see how removing guns from society is punishing anyone. It is helping make a safer environment.

It's fine. You have your thoughts, but thats fine, they're your thoughts, and this is why America will continue to see tragedies like the school massacre happen.

They just don't get that guns are bad.
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Removing guns from the civilian population will make it safer-----for the criminals.
 
tunalegs said:
In my state there is no waiting period for gun purchasers, nor registration required. One could purchase a rifle like the one used in the Connecticut or Colorado shootings with little hassle. If you pass the background check, you can buy them over the counter.
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What state are you in?
 
tunalegs said:
In my state there is no waiting period for gun purchasers, nor registration required. One could purchase a rifle like the one used in the Connecticut or Colorado shootings with little hassle. If you pass the background check, you can buy them over the counter.
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Well, you will enjoy CA as there is a 10 day cooling off period before you can pick it up.
 
E__WOK said:
So you want to reduce gun crime by having people turn in their guns? Will we be allowed to buy and own guns? Making people turn their guns is is the same result as banning them.

My guns haven't killed anybody. Why do I have to turn mine in?
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Because they are dangerous tools that are wholly inappropriate to your professional needs, considering that you are neither a criminal nor a security officer?

My humble proposal would be to treat guns and ammo like any other product, regarding product safety regulations - i.e. let the manufacturers and sellers pay full prohibitive damages for every person hurt or killed.
 
E__WOK said:
Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.
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Interesting to read the Franklin quote in this context.
Would you say the right to own a gun is connected with liberty? Or with security?
 
E__WOK said:
It's funny how you are selectively picking the information you want.

El Salvador's rate is six times greater than the US.
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Poor comparison, considering that it is a backyard of the US, at least where criminality is concerned - just about every shooting incident there is indirectly connected to the transfer of illicit goods to the US. There are other places with excessive shooting incident rates unconnected to the US and US criminality, like parts of the Caucasus. But that is not really any better - do you really want to compare the US with pirate's harbours, Mafia strongholds and civil war areas?
 
sevo said:
Because they are dangerous tools that are wholly inappropriate to your professional needs, considering that you are neither a criminal nor a security officer?

My humble proposal would be to treat guns and ammo like any other product, regarding product safety regulations - i.e. let the manufacturers and sellers pay full prohibitive damages for every person hurt or killed.
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Again, forcing innocent people to pay for something they didn't do is not right.

The majority of firearm deaths are gang related.
 
sevo said:
Poor comparison, considering that it is a backyard of the US, at least where criminality is concerned - just about every shooting incident there is indirectly connected to the transfer of illicit goods to the US. There are other places with excessive shooting incident rates unconnected to the US and US criminality, like parts of the Caucasus. But that is not really any better - do you really want to compare the US with pirate's harbours, Mafia strongholds and civil war areas?
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If the death was caused by a gun, why exclude that information?
 
sevo said:
I agree. Cultures can change, though - see Switzerland or Canada for countries with a even higher gun count and nonetheless significantly less gun related casualties per capita than the US. And on the other hand, gun related injuries and deaths are increasing in the gun-controlled UK even though they are tightening control - probably a side issue of local culture adopting the cultural values transported in US produced TV series.
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It all starts with poor parenting and lack of family values.

Video games and violent movies are not the cause for the violence these days.
 
E__WOK said:
Again, forcing innocent people to pay for something they didn't do is not right.
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By what twist of logic is keeping people from buying something making them pay? I'm not really convinced that the right for people to have dangerous playthings which have basically no practical application in the real world should take precedent over the need to not have innocent children and adults shot to death with a conveniently available weapon suitable for mass murder.

If the death was caused by a gun, why exclude that information?
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It's not excluded. The U.S. is a first world, industrialized country. El Salvador is not. In fact one might reason that there are more deaths in El Salvador than in the U.S. because the U.S. better enforces its gun laws... ;)

Even that El Salvador is much worse than the U.S., doesn't change that the U.S. is worse than England, Germany France, Austria, Italy, Japan, etc. and so on.
 
E__WOK said:
There can or may be more than one threat. I'm not shooting to kill, I'm shooting until the threat stops being a threat be it one round or more than one.

Someone shot in the arm with a non life threatening wound might collapse to the ground due to shock. Another person shot multiple times in the body might think, heck I've been hit multiple times and will die. Minus well keep on moving until I can't move anymore.

Bolt action vs semi auto.
Bolt action rifles are generally limited to a 4 or 5 round internal capacity. Recoil is generally harsher than a semi auto rifle due to physics and obviously takes longer to extract the round and load another one.
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With virtually nothing in th way of practical experience with firearms, I would not have thought of those points; so that's another thing I've learnt today, thanks for explaining that.
Regards
Brett
 
tunalegs said:
By what twist of logic is keeping people from buying something making them pay? I'm not really convinced that the right for people to have dangerous playthings which have basically no practical application in the real world should take precedent over the need to not have innocent children and adults shot to death with a conveniently available weapon suitable for mass murder.
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Changing peoples perceptions on guns is going to be the biggest and hardest thing to do there unfortunately.

It's been in the American culture ever since it's foundation.

Who knows, maybe oneday they will wake up and learn just how bad it is to have a firearm. A weapon that if kept in a house could be stumbled upon by a young child and accidently fired, all in the line of 'protection'.
 
I'm puzled by the idea about engaging some lunatic in a firefight in a highly populated area with people ducking for cover all over the place. What scares me about this idea is that a lot of people actually believe they can neutralize the threat from a guy armed with automatic weapons moving around firing at will with a single to just a couple of rounds and not risk hitting some of the ones they try to protect. I personally would be scared, shaking all over and though being quite good I doubt I would hit a moving target in less than 5-10 rounds without bringing other lives in danger. Who knows where the stray bullets end up.
 
E__WOK said:
Again, forcing innocent people to pay for something they didn't do is not right.
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Well, the former is right, in that Bushmaster have already had to pay out class action or other suits as a result of mass killings using their military-style rifle; I can't remember if it was the Washington or the Colorado killings, both of which were carried out using the same weapon.

Even people who hate guns are aware that there are too many hand guns around for legislation to make a real difference - but a ban on a weapon that can fire 49 rounds in one minute, already used in three mass shootings? The same for ammunition and high capacity magazines.

Even the most ardent gun fan has to acknowledge that they way in which they've been sold in recent years is deeply irresponsible.

http://www.thenation.com/article/17...rs-ar-15-most-popular-assault-weapon-america#

Walmart have pulled the Bushmaster, and the NRA are silent. The forces are gathering, of people who care about children more than they do about boys' toys.
 
JSU said:
Roger--

In the USA, black powder is classified as an explosive, smokeless powder is classified as a propellant.

People react to the term explosive differently than to the term propellant. Then there are fertilizers such as potassium nitrate. . . .
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Ah... Fascinating. Thanks!

But this causes me to wonder: 'arms' ain't just guns. What about the right to keep and bear hand grenades? Or surface-to-air missiles?

Lots of posts follow because I've just got up. This is a subject which fascinates me because on the one hand, I own guns and enjoy shooting, so I don't want to lose my guns, and on the other, I'd really quite like to see a decline in the mass murder rate. Or -- and this is important -- in the murder rate in general. As others have pointed out, an awful lot more people are shot 'retail' (one at a time, whether by accident or design) than are shot 'wholesale' in mass shootings.

Cheers,

R.
 
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