Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Having bought a Nikon FM3A recently I've obviously been completely taken over by the dark side because I'm now seriously starting to think about a D700 for digital work! 
So what has bought about this insane line of thinking?
With my first gallery opening documentation coming up in a couple of weeks I can contemplate and envisage (and remember) all the associated problems I encounter with the M8 at these low light no flash affairs:
Being locked into using the M8 at 320 ISO because 640 and higher is not workable for me ... having to use my 35mm 1.2 Nokton as my widest perspective ... not to mention it's the only lens I possess which is fast enough for these conditions at my chosen ISO setting and so on! IMO the crop factor of this camera is THE biggest hinderance to me in this environment!
Not to mention the real killer ... "I CAN'T AFFORD AN M9!" ... but with a bit of careful financial juggling, I could probably stretch my budget to a used D700. Where this actually starts to make some real sense is I now intend buying at least another two Zeiss lenses to go with the 50mm f1.4 Planar I've already bought for the FM3A ... or possibly some AIS Nikkors depending on available speeds at the 35mm focal length! Suddenly I have the prospect of a parallel film and digital system that can share lenses and more importantly present them at their correct focal lengths!
Now for the questions:
A used D700 may cost me how much?
Is the viewfinder OK for low light shooting with manual focus lenses as is, or will I have to get a better focusing screen ... is the said screen easily replaced?
Are the files at 6400 or higher as good as I hear ... feel free to post some exampes please. I would prefer samples shot in similar conditions to my working environment ... at 320 ISO and f1.2 I am often reduced to 1/8 and occasionally 1/4 sec shutter speeds!
What would the oproximate weight of the camera be with a fast 35mm prime fitted?
Thanks in advance ... and I'm sure I can think of more questions as we go!
So what has bought about this insane line of thinking?With my first gallery opening documentation coming up in a couple of weeks I can contemplate and envisage (and remember) all the associated problems I encounter with the M8 at these low light no flash affairs:
Being locked into using the M8 at 320 ISO because 640 and higher is not workable for me ... having to use my 35mm 1.2 Nokton as my widest perspective ... not to mention it's the only lens I possess which is fast enough for these conditions at my chosen ISO setting and so on! IMO the crop factor of this camera is THE biggest hinderance to me in this environment!
Not to mention the real killer ... "I CAN'T AFFORD AN M9!" ... but with a bit of careful financial juggling, I could probably stretch my budget to a used D700. Where this actually starts to make some real sense is I now intend buying at least another two Zeiss lenses to go with the 50mm f1.4 Planar I've already bought for the FM3A ... or possibly some AIS Nikkors depending on available speeds at the 35mm focal length! Suddenly I have the prospect of a parallel film and digital system that can share lenses and more importantly present them at their correct focal lengths!
Now for the questions:
A used D700 may cost me how much?
Is the viewfinder OK for low light shooting with manual focus lenses as is, or will I have to get a better focusing screen ... is the said screen easily replaced?
Are the files at 6400 or higher as good as I hear ... feel free to post some exampes please. I would prefer samples shot in similar conditions to my working environment ... at 320 ISO and f1.2 I am often reduced to 1/8 and occasionally 1/4 sec shutter speeds!
What would the oproximate weight of the camera be with a fast 35mm prime fitted?
Thanks in advance ... and I'm sure I can think of more questions as we go!
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emraphoto
Veteran
the viewfinder is something to behold really. big. bright and clear. manual focus has a pair of arrows and a dot for confirmation which after a bit of getting used to works pretty swell.
i never shot much up into 6400 but 3200 is easily as good as iso 800 of dslrs a generation or two back.
i never found the d700 much of an issue to carry all day. i had that thing around my neck for weeks on end (with primes) with no problems.
it's a brilliant camera and i doubt you would regret picking one up Keith.
i never shot much up into 6400 but 3200 is easily as good as iso 800 of dslrs a generation or two back.
i never found the d700 much of an issue to carry all day. i had that thing around my neck for weeks on end (with primes) with no problems.
it's a brilliant camera and i doubt you would regret picking one up Keith.
kxl
Social Documentary
Some comments:
-Keith
- You will need quite a bit of patience (or luck) to find a reasonably priced used D700. If you must stretch the budget I would opt for the Bill-me-later option though B&H (and others), if that is available to Australia.
- If you do not have a problem focusing with the FM3A, you will not have a problem with the D700.
- I had the same "system" plan that you mentioned, but decided that I preferred manual focus RF's rather than manual focus SLR's.
- Don't know about actual weight, but there is a definite heft to the D700.
- Sample image: see "The Inner Light" image (first image) on my website -- photo taken wide open with a Nikon 85/1.4 AI from about 4 feet away @ 3200 ISO.
- You will NOT regret getting a D700.
-Keith
not_in_good_order
Well-known
I think that default focusing screen is adequate with manual focus lenses. With the grid lines turned on, it is very similar to using an E screen in an F3 or similar Nikon camera.
I don't typically use ISO 6400, so I can't help you there, unfortunately. The camera is excellent at 3200 which is a setting I frequently. The highest ISO image that I have processed and posted online was taken at ISO 5000. I'm sure a number of folks will groan since this is a picture of my dog, but here it is anyway:
Click the image for a larger view if you like. The only noise reduction done was to remove a little chroma noise. I used a 50mm f/2 AI wide open at f/2, 1/160 sec.
I don't typically use ISO 6400, so I can't help you there, unfortunately. The camera is excellent at 3200 which is a setting I frequently. The highest ISO image that I have processed and posted online was taken at ISO 5000. I'm sure a number of folks will groan since this is a picture of my dog, but here it is anyway:
Click the image for a larger view if you like. The only noise reduction done was to remove a little chroma noise. I used a 50mm f/2 AI wide open at f/2, 1/160 sec.
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fbf
Well-known
Buy one and you won't look back
I got my D700 used (with about 4,000 clicks on the shutter) last November for 185,000 yen (six month warranty included). The same shop in Tokyo is now selling them for around 175,000 yen.
It's a heavy camera, but not so bad with a smallish 50 prime lens. High ISO performance is nothing less than outstanding. Here's a recent shot taken at ISO3200. Only PP is resizing, light sharpening, and conversion to B&W. This is Gabor starting to lust after a Nikon SP 2005
It's a heavy camera, but not so bad with a smallish 50 prime lens. High ISO performance is nothing less than outstanding. Here's a recent shot taken at ISO3200. Only PP is resizing, light sharpening, and conversion to B&W. This is Gabor starting to lust after a Nikon SP 2005
gilpen123
Gil
if you will do manual focusing a lot I suggest you get a Katz Eye focusing screen. It's easy to install. I had this with my D200 and D300 before and it's more accurate than relying only on the green dot to confirm focus. Normally, once the green dot is lighted I may make some more slight adjustments.
Shac
Well-known
Keith - Not sure about price - I bought mine used for $1,850. Look for a reconditioned one also.
Like others I use 3,200 frequently - Jonmanjiro's shot above gives a good ide (you can always pop in camera shop with a cf card and try for yourself. You can also check the excellent viewfinder. At 3,200 and your 1.2 you should be shooting at 1/100th I'd guess
As to weight 1,524 g with 35 1.4 and 1,389 g with 35 f2
Like others I use 3,200 frequently - Jonmanjiro's shot above gives a good ide (you can always pop in camera shop with a cf card and try for yourself. You can also check the excellent viewfinder. At 3,200 and your 1.2 you should be shooting at 1/100th I'd guess
As to weight 1,524 g with 35 1.4 and 1,389 g with 35 f2
In my case, I had problems with manual focus lenses unless I was using live view, which is not really practical. I much prefer old school film SLR split image/microprism focusing screens...the green dot is green for a split second, then turn the focusing ring back and you miss it again; then the subject moves and the dot is gone (again.)
If I were to go that route again I'd have to look into a Katz or other focusing screen.
If I were to go that route again I'd have to look into a Katz or other focusing screen.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I got my D700 used (with about 4,000 clicks on the shutter) last November for 185,000 yen (six month warranty included). The same shop in Tokyo is now selling them for around 175,000 yen.
It's a heavy camera, but not so bad with a smallish 50 prime lens. High ISO performance is nothing less than outstanding. Here's a recent shot taken at ISO3200. Only PP is resizing, light sharpening, and conversion to B&W. This is Gabor starting to lust after a Nikon SP 2005
There's an ebay seller in OZ selling them new for $2635.00 AUD with full Nikon warranty which seems pretty reasonable if I decide to go that route.
As for Gabor! ... nice to put a face to a name. Or what you can see of it behind that Nikon!
gavinlg
Veteran
You wouldn't regret it, they're a really really good camera.
edit: This will probably enrage some people on this forum - but the current breed of canon/nikon full frame DSLRs leave the m8 for dead in overall image quality. The d700 for the price is probably the most useful camera on the market. The 5d is better value, but if you can afford the d700 and if you like nikons, go the d700. Especially seeing as you can share lenses with you fm3a. It's a big camera, even for one with no grip, but it's worth it for the results and reliability of use.
edit: This will probably enrage some people on this forum - but the current breed of canon/nikon full frame DSLRs leave the m8 for dead in overall image quality. The d700 for the price is probably the most useful camera on the market. The 5d is better value, but if you can afford the d700 and if you like nikons, go the d700. Especially seeing as you can share lenses with you fm3a. It's a big camera, even for one with no grip, but it's worth it for the results and reliability of use.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Well it's Saturday evening and I'm off to get good and hammered and contemplate high end DSLR ownership to keep making a dollar ... I never thought my life would come to this!
I'll be back with a headache (probably) tomorrow morning looking for more convincing of my need for a D700 ... thanks for the excellent advice so far!
I'll be back with a headache (probably) tomorrow morning looking for more convincing of my need for a D700 ... thanks for the excellent advice so far!
jarski
Veteran
I'd expect Nikon to bring upgraded model with video soon, also probably with some more megapix.
but main reason for me not to make the jump has been the heft of D700. I have same size F100, and lugging that whole day can be a pain. so, am secretly hoping successor of D90 will have a full frame, smaller package than D700.
wasnt PMA 2010 quite soon ? February ?
but main reason for me not to make the jump has been the heft of D700. I have same size F100, and lugging that whole day can be a pain. so, am secretly hoping successor of D90 will have a full frame, smaller package than D700.
wasnt PMA 2010 quite soon ? February ?
Makten
-
It's OK if you use the AF confirm, which is a little green dot down to the left. This thing is really accurate and works in close to total darkness. But a screen is probably nicer (haven't changed mine yet, but I only use manual lenses).
At ISO 320, f/1.2 and 1/4 with the M8, you will be alright with ISO 3200, f/1.4 and 1/30 with D700. But the noise is not lower at level compared to 320 on the M8. The problem here is that there are no good 35/1.4. The old Nikkor is OK, but not sharp at all wide open.
Personally I use Nikkor 28/2.8 AIS, CV 40/2 Ultron and Nikkor 50/1.2 AI for my short-to-normal kit. It works quite fine in low light and beats the **** out of the M8. And then I use ACR and I never apply NR, which might say something.
Here's one with the 50/1.2 @ f/2 and ISO 6400. No NR.
"Too much", which is why I bought an M8.
The camera is ~1100 grams with battery, but without a lens. A Nikkor 35/1.4 is 400 grams.--------------------------------------
The D700 is so good that I doubt that I will ever need a better camera. But I hate the weight and size of it.
Edit: Oh, and here's how the 35/1.4 looks on the camera. I sold it because of the terrible bokeh, but it handles very nice.
And a size comparsion with the Ultron.
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Wiyum
Established
Keith,
I can't speak to all of your questions, but I can say this above all: a D700 is a pretty unregrettable purchase. After years of trying one digital SLR after another, I've finally found a camera that behaves like a film camera, both in terms of my focal length/angle of view expectations and in that when an image is less than what I'd hoped for, it is always my fault and not the camera's. Gone are the days of reviewing files and finding noise or aberrations that I hadn't anticipated ruining a shot.
I can't speak to cost, especially in Australia. The VF is big, bright, and beautiful, and a joy in low light. There's no split-image prism, so if that's how you prefer to manually focus, you need to replace the screen. That said, if you're a clean matte screen guy, you'll have little to complain about. The AI focus confirmation "green dot" works but is a tough finicky, as explained by digitalintrigue.
I find that with a 35mm/2.0 AF-D mounted on front, with hood, the camera is perfectly weighted and I often carry it like this all day without worry or strain. I usually carry the camera in a Lowepro Slingshot backpack with a 24, 35, 50, and 85mm lens, all with hoods, and that kit is no trouble for a day's shooting.
And finally: yes, the 6400 ISO shots are that good. I'd even use it higher if I knew I was converting to black and white and I needed it to get the shot, but I frequently will shoot with auto ISO set to a 6400 maximum. Obviously, lower ISOs are better, but I've never once regretted taking a shot at 6400, especially since I usually needed to in order to get proper exposure. I had a D70 back when it was new, and I couldn't stand looking at the 1600 ISO shots from that camera. The 6400 ISO shots from the D700 are much, much better. Not only is there less noise, the noise at 6400 is also less objectionable on the D700.
The biggest downside of the camera, in a way, is that it is such a capable picture-taking machine. I find that I set auto ISO to a max ISO of 6400 and a minimum shutter speed fitting for my longest focal length that I'm carrying, choose an AF mode that fits the type of shooting I'm doing, dial in some exposure compensation, and work in aperture priority mode, letting the camera make the rest of the decisions "in the moment." I'm not necessarily proud that I've become so lazy, but the plus side is that you can customize all of these things so well and so easily, you can essentially program the camera to not just think "for" you, but to think "like" you. When I shoot in this mostly-auto way, I never get the sense that the pictures are anything other than what I'd have done if I were setting everything manually, just that I had to do less work in the moment to achieve them.
If it wasn't clear already, the D700 is just about all I could want from a camera. The only thing it doesn't do is act as a "carry everywhere, all of the time" camera. That's what a GF1 might be for, soon.
Will
Oh, and as a side note: the gridlines that can be turned on are drawn to outline the 16x24mm frame for the APS-C format. With these turned on, you get the bonus of being able to accurately compose for 1:1 or 9:4 images in-camera, which is nice. 9:4, it turns out, prints really nicely with a 1-inch border on 20x10 inch paper, and is a suitable aspect ratio for on-the-fly panoramas.
I can't speak to all of your questions, but I can say this above all: a D700 is a pretty unregrettable purchase. After years of trying one digital SLR after another, I've finally found a camera that behaves like a film camera, both in terms of my focal length/angle of view expectations and in that when an image is less than what I'd hoped for, it is always my fault and not the camera's. Gone are the days of reviewing files and finding noise or aberrations that I hadn't anticipated ruining a shot.
I can't speak to cost, especially in Australia. The VF is big, bright, and beautiful, and a joy in low light. There's no split-image prism, so if that's how you prefer to manually focus, you need to replace the screen. That said, if you're a clean matte screen guy, you'll have little to complain about. The AI focus confirmation "green dot" works but is a tough finicky, as explained by digitalintrigue.
I find that with a 35mm/2.0 AF-D mounted on front, with hood, the camera is perfectly weighted and I often carry it like this all day without worry or strain. I usually carry the camera in a Lowepro Slingshot backpack with a 24, 35, 50, and 85mm lens, all with hoods, and that kit is no trouble for a day's shooting.
And finally: yes, the 6400 ISO shots are that good. I'd even use it higher if I knew I was converting to black and white and I needed it to get the shot, but I frequently will shoot with auto ISO set to a 6400 maximum. Obviously, lower ISOs are better, but I've never once regretted taking a shot at 6400, especially since I usually needed to in order to get proper exposure. I had a D70 back when it was new, and I couldn't stand looking at the 1600 ISO shots from that camera. The 6400 ISO shots from the D700 are much, much better. Not only is there less noise, the noise at 6400 is also less objectionable on the D700.
The biggest downside of the camera, in a way, is that it is such a capable picture-taking machine. I find that I set auto ISO to a max ISO of 6400 and a minimum shutter speed fitting for my longest focal length that I'm carrying, choose an AF mode that fits the type of shooting I'm doing, dial in some exposure compensation, and work in aperture priority mode, letting the camera make the rest of the decisions "in the moment." I'm not necessarily proud that I've become so lazy, but the plus side is that you can customize all of these things so well and so easily, you can essentially program the camera to not just think "for" you, but to think "like" you. When I shoot in this mostly-auto way, I never get the sense that the pictures are anything other than what I'd have done if I were setting everything manually, just that I had to do less work in the moment to achieve them.
If it wasn't clear already, the D700 is just about all I could want from a camera. The only thing it doesn't do is act as a "carry everywhere, all of the time" camera. That's what a GF1 might be for, soon.
Will
Oh, and as a side note: the gridlines that can be turned on are drawn to outline the 16x24mm frame for the APS-C format. With these turned on, you get the bonus of being able to accurately compose for 1:1 or 9:4 images in-camera, which is nice. 9:4, it turns out, prints really nicely with a 1-inch border on 20x10 inch paper, and is a suitable aspect ratio for on-the-fly panoramas.
sig
Well-known
you might have a quick look at getprice.com.au and shopbot.com.au too.
ornate_wrasse
Moderator
I just checked over at www.nikonians.org and they have a used D700 for sale. I've copied and pasted the ad as I'm not sure you can see it unless you've signed up.
"Used D700 / MB-D10 For Sale"
Up for sale is a used USA Model D700 camera body. I purchased my D700 from Onecall in December of 2008. It currently has 3682 shutter actuations on it.
Also for sale is an MB-D10 Battery Pack and Simon Stafford's instructional manual Nikon D700 which were purchased at the same time as the camera body.
I just ordered a D3S camera body and would like to sell my D700 to help pay for my new purchase.
I'm asking $2200.00 U.S.D for the package.
This price includes priority shipping via the USPS within the continental United States. I would be willing to ship outside of the United States but buyer is to pay extra for shipping.
If you have any questions you can contact me via email at the following address: scott@pecjak.com
The price is $2,200 and he will ship to your neck of the woods.
Hope that helps,
Ellen
croweater
Member
I've got an FM3A (and FM2N) and D700, so the combination makes sense. All your FM3A glass will work on the D700.
There's a boxed one here in Adelaide at a dealer in the city for $2995. I'm not saying that it is a great or bad price, just giving an idea of Australian retail pricing for a D700. That's a retail price, you should be able to do better from a private sale, but this particular dealer is a lot more reputable than some others!
I limit mine to 3200, dynamic range starts getting limiting around there as the ISO increases.
As to talk about waiting for a D700x or whatever it will be called, I wouldn't bother. With digital there's always something newer and shinier around the corner, which is part of the problem with digital. Don't get sucked into that, just buy what you need and can afford.
vha
Isn't it coffee time ?
Just have to join the crowd here, buy a D700, as long as your aware it´s a digital camera you would not regret
Had mine for some months now and I like it.
No problems to carry around, use my 45mm nikkor p as walk-around one lens combo, works like a charm.
If you have a 35mm 1.4 then you have a really nice combination, a really nice combination. . .
If you want to click around more i have some photos on flickr, www.flickr.com/photos/vha
About the 2nd hand prices i have no clue, everything is more expensive in Norway,
directly "translated" to usd without thinking of differences in income/general price level I payed 2500 usd for mine (4500 exp)
a new one at that moment was 3500, now 3100 usd (25% tax included)
Enjoy your new camera!
vha
Had mine for some months now and I like it.
No problems to carry around, use my 45mm nikkor p as walk-around one lens combo, works like a charm.
If you have a 35mm 1.4 then you have a really nice combination, a really nice combination. . .
If you want to click around more i have some photos on flickr, www.flickr.com/photos/vha
About the 2nd hand prices i have no clue, everything is more expensive in Norway,
directly "translated" to usd without thinking of differences in income/general price level I payed 2500 usd for mine (4500 exp)
a new one at that moment was 3500, now 3100 usd (25% tax included)
Enjoy your new camera!
vha
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italy74
Well-known
Keith
I'll reply to you more later, for now just give a look here, I have a D700 since 1 year now:
http://italy74.smugmug.com/keyword/d700#771236166_hcmr7
all pictures with D700, some at 6400 iso (once you open the first screen, you can select them by changing the base keyword to "6400"). Actually, I find it really great to use and I can't say if a katzeye may improve or not the viewfinder. I'm with with the standard one. At high iso, however, it's always better to use (according to my experience) a b/w or sepia tone that furtherly diminish/smoothen the remaining noise to a more film-grain look.
EDIT: among "pro" I noticed only one is 6400, others are at 4500iso, others at 3200.. however as you see the image is really clean and if you need more I'll figure a way to show you more high-iso images later.
I'll reply to you more later, for now just give a look here, I have a D700 since 1 year now:
http://italy74.smugmug.com/keyword/d700#771236166_hcmr7
all pictures with D700, some at 6400 iso (once you open the first screen, you can select them by changing the base keyword to "6400"). Actually, I find it really great to use and I can't say if a katzeye may improve or not the viewfinder. I'm with with the standard one. At high iso, however, it's always better to use (according to my experience) a b/w or sepia tone that furtherly diminish/smoothen the remaining noise to a more film-grain look.
EDIT: among "pro" I noticed only one is 6400, others are at 4500iso, others at 3200.. however as you see the image is really clean and if you need more I'll figure a way to show you more high-iso images later.
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