Sony rumored to reveal full-frame NEX-FF on September 24th

[Joe S]

Define "overpriced".

Cheers,

R.

$6950 🙂

 

[MIkhail]

Interesting story. I took my Zuiko, Leica, and Nikon glass out on the NEX taking what should have been identical pictures with each lens and then printed to 8x10. When I laid the prints out every single person that saw them without hesitation or exception looked at the prints (not knowing what I took them with and not what others had picked) pointed to the Leica ones and said, "that one is better". I had been planning to keep my Zuiko kit and sell my Leica R equipment, after that I am not so sure.

"Better" how?


I would challenge anybody to show me a picture (out of iconic images of human history, or otherwise, regardless) that CAN be IMPROVED or dramatically changed, if being taken with slightly sharper or slightly softer lenses, than it was indeed taken. In other words, show me an example where pixel-peeping made any sense whatsoever.

 

[lynnb]

Sony alpha rumours reports good probability of Sony releasing three new E-mount FF cameras over next 5 months - two NEX-style FF bodies and one DSLR-shaped body. Along with two FF E-mount Zeiss primes (35/2.8 and 55/1.8) and two zooms.

It would be great if the FF sensor in these cameras plays well with legacy RF lenses.

 

[Lss]

It would be great if the FF sensor in these cameras plays well with legacy RF lenses.

One of the three would be a good start. Sony has paid some attention to this in their NEX line thus far, so it is not entirely out of the question. The worrying part is that NEX-7 which remains the top model in their still camera line is the exception.

 

[jubbaa]

Yes Sir!
The M9 and the M240 are the only FFcams which can handle Leica M-lenses - if there is now someting with a better Sensor which can handle these lenses too, even the strongest Leica fan will strat to think! And that the Sony Sensor will be better as these Leica/Kodak Sensors is something like a written law!
Leica lives today from the quality of their lenses not from the quality of their digital bodies - people buy them while their is no competitor to a M240 - so what if there will be one?

I don't think it is as clear cut as that.

The main reason why I love my Leica so much is the way it feels to me in the hand. This is a personal opinion of course, but I just want to pick it up and take it out and shoot it ...and isn't shooting what photography is about?

I have / had other cameras that while they are not full frame I think are more consistant in their output and out perform the Leica for images being viewed on the web / ipad size. But these cameras never did and don't get half as much use in my house as my Leica because I don't feel like I want to actually use them.

I have never liked the Sony NEX line , although I can appreciate they are capable machines . But to me they are like computers with a lens attached - I have no interest and dislike the way they look and feel in the hand.

So unless Sony's Full Frame Nex looks and feels like a classic rangefinder I won't even give it a second thought ...even though it will be far more capable than my M9.

Never under estimate the power of Haptics.

James

 

[sevo]

Interesting story. I took my Zuiko, Leica, and Nikon glass out on the NEX taking what should have been identical pictures with each lens and then printed to 8x10. When I laid the prints out every single person that saw them without hesitation or exception looked at the prints (not knowing what I took them with and not what others had picked) pointed to the Leica ones and said, "that one is better"

I hate to say so, but unless you've been testing lenses that have no counterparts or use settings that exploit the weaknesses of one lens against the strength of another (like comparing any 1970's lens @f/1.4 to a current asph wide open), that will fall in the "inspired by Leica glass" category, and won't be repeatable in a double blind test.

There is no physical reason why viewers presented with 8x10 prints of everyday natural subjects could distinguish them by lens, given reasonably decent lenses of identical speed and focal length - the tiny variations in local contrast at that modest scale are much smaller than the print artefacts or the variations introduced by the inevitable light, pose and framing changes that happen over the time you need to test several lenses.

In a nutshell, if you only intend to print to 8x10 maximum, you do not need a FF camera (and don't really need something upward of 6MP either - the actual print resolution will be around 3MP), you do not need modern Leica lenses, and if you need a Leica, it would be because of the unique properties of its finder - which you can't replace with a EVIL...

 

[anerjee]

The only way someone can cut into Leica's M monopoly is to make another mechanical rangefinder digital camera at a cheaper price. True M fans don't want a Sony AF camera.

true. +10^10

 

[Roger Hicks]

I hate to say so, but unless you've been testing lenses that have no counterparts or use settings that exploit the weaknesses of one lens against the strength of another (like comparing any 1970's lens @f/1.4 to a current asph wide open), that will fall in the "inspired by Leica glass" category, and won't be repeatable in a double blind test.

There is no physical reason why viewers presented with 8x10 prints of everyday natural subjects could distinguish them by lens, given reasonably decent lenses of identical speed and focal length - the tiny variations in local contrast at that modest scale are much smaller than the print artefacts or the variations introduced by the inevitable light, pose and framing changes that happen over the time you need to test several lenses.

In a nutshell, if you only intend to print to 8x10 maximum, you do not need a FF camera (and don't really need something upward of 6MP either - the actual print resolution will be around 3MP), you do not need modern Leica lenses, and if you need a Leica, it would be because of the unique properties of its finder - which you can't replace with a EVIL...

Dunno. A friend ALWAYS managed to spot my Alpa/Biogon pics (and to remark upon them) even when they were mixed with other pics taken with Alpas and both Schneider and Rodenstock lenses. I'm not sure I could do it but he always did. And my 75 Summicron seems to have a particular image quality to me.

Cheers,

R.

 

[literiter]

I wonder if it mattered what pen James Joyce used to write Ulysses?

 

[Scrambler]

I wonder if it mattered what pen James Joyce used to write Ulysses?

I read a book years ago where the author wrote some chapters with pen, some typewritten, some word processed. They were different. He said he was most careful with typing. Word processing was excessively wordy. The tool does influence the artwork.

 

[froyd]

I wonder if it mattered what pen James Joyce used to write Ulysses?

Of course it matters; but not quite as much as if a sport photographer used his iPohone instead of a DSLR for his reporting.

 

[jsrockit]

I wonder if it mattered what pen James Joyce used to write Ulysses?

It probably mattered to him...

 

[Lawrence Sheperd]

Charging this amount for a full frame compact seems to be the thing to do and Sony will be laughing all the way to the bank ... for a while. Then Fuji will bring out something similar and no one will want the Sony and before you know it full frame compacts will be old hat and we'll start searching for the next holy grail.

...and we'll start searching for one on the second-hand market! 🙂

 

[froyd]

...and we'll start searching for one on the second-hand market! 🙂

Amen! But it might take a few long years...it's only now that I can begin to contemplate the purchase of the 2006 wundercamera, the M8 (and that ain't even FF)

 

[Godfrey]

If all of these rumors are the truth - good night Leica you are history.
3000,-$ compared to 6000,-$ of the M240 and more flexibility - who will buy a Leica body anymore!

Why is every introduction of a nice camera "Good night Leica!" to some people? Y'all really must have some chip on your shoulder.

I wish Sony the very best of success with their new camera. Hopefully it will be a great piece of equipment. I may even buy and use one.

I'll still have my Leicas, tho. Just like I still have my Olympus, my Hasselblad, my Ricoh, etc. They're all quite different things.

G

 

[semilog]

Y'all really must have some chip on your shoulder.

Always good to introduce personal invective into a discussion about corporate entities and consumer products. Well done.

 

[jsrockit]

Why is every introduction of a nice camera "Good night Leica!" to some people?

(1) Because they want one, but don't want to or can't spend for it.
(2) Because they hate Leica

 

[Godfrey]

(1) Because they want one, but don't want to or can't spend for it.
(2) Because they hate Leica

LOL! Great summary.

I could care less about corporate entities and consumer products. Or brand names. I care about camera equipment, GOOD camera equipment, from whatever company produces it. Discuss that. ;-)

G

 

[BW400CN]

Boys you care to much about brand names!
A camera is a tool like a music instrument. You couldn´t play any partitur on any instrument and have to find out the way and style it likes to be played. So if I don´t want a Leica maybe while I couldn´t play the things on it I want to!
Iron Maiden on a Stradivari would sound strange and will be a rape of the violin - but Mozart on a Fender Stratocaster will sound strange too!

 

[Roger Hicks]

I wonder if it mattered what pen James Joyce used to write Ulysses?

Not quite the same thing. How do you compare typeset pages with a photographic image? Especially an original print?

Cheers,

R.