HSI
The Fourth
I started the way you did.
M3 + Rokkor Lens.
Now I need a Rigid Summicron.
This is really the way to go. Coming from three D200's its going to be a whole new world. Go find an M2 and some nice lenses, set your self up a dark room with a nice enlarger and some good tanks, buy a bunch of Tri-X and a lot of paper and learn to shoot, develop, and print the way photography was meant to be.
mw_uio
Well-known
phatnev, have you taken a look at cameraquest and their insight into buying a Leica? I strongly suggest that you go with one body and two lenses. Then have the extra cash for film, development, and a scanner. The rest of the cash, you keep and do not touch it! The camera you choose is not about what it does not have, it is all about what you can do with your gear creatively! http://www.cameraquest.com/leicaMalacarte.htm
Cheers
MArk
Quito, EC
Cheers
MArk
Quito, EC
phatnev
Well-known
Im certainly not buying new lenses, if I buy a MP I may purchase a new one, I may go used. I just cant believe a group of Leicaphiles is tryin to talk me out of spending this money. So Im starting to think that a 35lux, a 75cron, and two M? bodies would be a nice set to start with. I am buying a second body because Im pairing down from 7 bodies, to just 2, and I will be damned if Im ever caught without a backup. Matching bodies? Complimentary bodies? Experiences etc etc
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HSI
The Fourth
Wait, wait, wait.
7 Bodies?
I think we need a list of what your are selling, for being only 19.
And as we are trying to 'talk you out' of this, we are just telling you DSLR's and RF's are quite a world apart. It takes some getting used to and is not always the route for most people.
7 Bodies?
I think we need a list of what your are selling, for being only 19.
And as we are trying to 'talk you out' of this, we are just telling you DSLR's and RF's are quite a world apart. It takes some getting used to and is not always the route for most people.
Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
phatnev said:
As a long-time SLR user myself, my suggestion is to start slow until you're positive the RF life is for you.
A nice M6 classic and a 35 Lux to start (although my preference would be for a 35 Cron ASPH), and maybe a used C-V 75. You may find you don't care for a 75 on a .72 RF, so keep it cheap. Don't try to dictate what you're going to need, let it develop over time.
If it seems to stick, *then* get a second body and more glass - but don't dump your Nikon gear until you're sure!
phatnev
Well-known
HSI said:
I understand this, most people dont want to make pictures though, they want the camera to do it for them. Im ready to jump into the Leica M group of nuts, I just need to figure out what to buy.
And I've got 3 Nikon D200s, a Nikon D1H, a Nikon F2, a few assorted film SLRs I've gotten from family members, a 17-55mm f2.8 AF-S, a 50mm 1.8, a 28mm 3.5m a 105mm 2.5, a 200mm f2 AF-S VR, 2 1.4TCs, a 35-70mm 2.8, geez, I got lots of Nikon sh*t, and it's all gotta go
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phatnev
Well-known
Im quite sure it'll fit. I havn't picked up a dSLR since my last sporting event almost a month ago now. I've also shot about 50 rolls of film with my F2 + 28 3.5 over that same month. Its so invigorating. I think a M6 and a 35 lux will be a hell of a starting point, I just wish I could convince myself that I "need" a MPKen Ford said:
Why would you want a Cron over a Lux?
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ZeissFan
Veteran
My advice would be to slow down a little. Stop shooting hundreds of photos during each outing.
Three cliches come to mind:
-- Just because you can do it doesn't mean that you should (shoot roll after roll of film or hundreds of photos a day -- think about each photo).
-- More isn't necessarily better. Sometimes it's just more.
-- You learn more from your mistakes than you do from your triumphs. That's true in life, as well as photography.
I also agree with the suggestion to start with a fixed-lens rangefinder and then move up. Using a rangefinder isn't for everyone, and frankly sometimes I just reach for an SLR, especially when I'm doing some macro work. Rangefinders aren't the best tool for that.
Three cliches come to mind:
-- Just because you can do it doesn't mean that you should (shoot roll after roll of film or hundreds of photos a day -- think about each photo).
-- More isn't necessarily better. Sometimes it's just more.
-- You learn more from your mistakes than you do from your triumphs. That's true in life, as well as photography.
I also agree with the suggestion to start with a fixed-lens rangefinder and then move up. Using a rangefinder isn't for everyone, and frankly sometimes I just reach for an SLR, especially when I'm doing some macro work. Rangefinders aren't the best tool for that.
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phatnev
Well-known
Nor are they any use to me at the NCAA tourney I shoot every spring, or at PSU games I cover in the fall, I plan to do exclusively PJ/Portrait/Travel/Street stuff with a Leica, precisely what it was made for. A 35lux ASPH seems to be a nice starting point for my kit, I think a 50lux ASPH would be awesome too. but I cant seem to figure out why people are partial to the Summicron versions, maybe price/size and lack for the need of speed?
I learned a hell of a lot from shooting digital, and while you may admonish me for taking too many shots, at a sporting event, you just gotta. Ya gotta make everyframe you can in hopes that you'll catch that one moment that'll have the newspapers flying off the shelves. Thats not the type of shooting Im going to be doing with a RF.
I learned a hell of a lot from shooting digital, and while you may admonish me for taking too many shots, at a sporting event, you just gotta. Ya gotta make everyframe you can in hopes that you'll catch that one moment that'll have the newspapers flying off the shelves. Thats not the type of shooting Im going to be doing with a RF.
Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
phatnev said:
I just prefer the look - it has a crispness that the Lux doesn't seem to have. Of course, many people feel the Cron ASPH to be a bit "clinical", but I like it - it reminds me of my Nikkor 24/f2.8.
Tell you what - I'll be your personal Leica adviser in trade for that 200/f2, and will add 24/7 service if you toss in the 17~55 DX. Deal?
Thardy
Veteran
WoolenMammoth said:
It's funny but we said that exact same thing ( why did we spend all that dough?) 2 weeks after moving into a house we built 4 years ago.
That urge to spend will just not go away until you've parted with the cash......then you're left with that question...
phatnev
Well-known
Ken if you want this Nikon stuff, Im sure I could take that M stuff off your hands...
Alright, so lets see. A 35lux is the starting point, now the M body. MP or M6.....someone tell me which and I'll be set to start I think I may as well just flip an effing coin as its completely retarded to buy the MP when the M6 is 1/3 the price. Ugh.
Alright, so lets see. A 35lux is the starting point, now the M body. MP or M6.....someone tell me which and I'll be set to start
I think I may as well just flip an effing coin as its completely retarded to buy the MP when the M6 is 1/3 the price. Ugh.
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HSI
The Fourth
I say M6.
I say Summicron 35.
Keep it clean, keep it simple.
I say Summicron 35.
Keep it clean, keep it simple.
phatnev
Well-known
I think I'll go for a M6(unless a cheap used MP pops up) and a 35lux ASPH for now. Maybe in the future I'll pick up a new MP. I need speed, as much of it as I can get. So the lux > cron for me. I guess that settles it, it kinda leaves me a bit naked but the flexibility of a 35 prime on 35mm film is incredible. Thanks for all the help, hopefully I can keep ya'll updated on the status. I'm gonna bank the rest of the coin, maybe go to Europe for a few weeks, regardless, I'm excited
ZeissFan
Veteran
Hey, good choice. I think you'll have a lot of fun with it.
One body + one lens. A good way to go. And 35 is a great all-around focal length. And remember, 35mm is 35mm and not 35mm x 1.5.
One body + one lens. A good way to go. And 35 is a great all-around focal length. And remember, 35mm is 35mm and not 35mm x 1.5.
phatnev
Well-known
Mike Im all about the 35mm format, I dont mind AP-S/DX sensors but I cant seem to bring myself to buy a M8 because it just seems like the crop factor would disrupt the RF simplicity. Where in Pitt ya at Mike? I go to UPitt main campus.
Chris101
summicronia
Hey Chris!
It's good to see you again - no, really!
Don't dump yer Nikons yet dude (and at 500K exposures, they're ready to drop anyway.) Rangefinders don't shoot everything, just like there are better tools than a dslr for some stuff. And listen to these guys when they tell you to start out slowly. There are aspects to RF shooting that are not obvious, and must be learned by experience. And if you don't click with it (and don't knee jerk say you will, cause you just don't know until you do it) then you will be stuck with some expensive junk.
I was told by the quintessential Leica fanatic that 90 percent of all good 35mm photos are made with a 50mm, so maybe that's the place to start. But the f/1 is huge, and only gets as close as one meter. Another thing, such a big lens will block more of your viewfinder than a smaller lens would.
Speaking of viewfinder, that's another area you should look at. If you are gonna shoot wide, say 35 or 28mm, you will want a wide VF, or as they call it in Leicaland, 0.78. Anything wider (like the CV 12mm) and you'll need an external VF. If you are shooting a 50mm, you might appreciate 0.85 more. That will lead to more accurate focusing, and more comfortable framing.
If I had your money, I'd get an MP through the ala Carte service - black, no engraving, and the angled rewind knob. You can always $ell it for about what you'll pay if it doesn't work out between you two.
eta: just saw you are getting a 35mm lens. Cool, that's what I have.
It's good to see you again - no, really!
Don't dump yer Nikons yet dude (and at 500K exposures, they're ready to drop anyway.) Rangefinders don't shoot everything, just like there are better tools than a dslr for some stuff. And listen to these guys when they tell you to start out slowly. There are aspects to RF shooting that are not obvious, and must be learned by experience. And if you don't click with it (and don't knee jerk say you will, cause you just don't know until you do it) then you will be stuck with some expensive junk.
I was told by the quintessential Leica fanatic that 90 percent of all good 35mm photos are made with a 50mm, so maybe that's the place to start. But the f/1 is huge, and only gets as close as one meter. Another thing, such a big lens will block more of your viewfinder than a smaller lens would.
Speaking of viewfinder, that's another area you should look at. If you are gonna shoot wide, say 35 or 28mm, you will want a wide VF, or as they call it in Leicaland, 0.78. Anything wider (like the CV 12mm) and you'll need an external VF. If you are shooting a 50mm, you might appreciate 0.85 more. That will lead to more accurate focusing, and more comfortable framing.
If I had your money, I'd get an MP through the ala Carte service - black, no engraving, and the angled rewind knob. You can always $ell it for about what you'll pay if it doesn't work out between you two.
eta: just saw you are getting a 35mm lens. Cool, that's what I have.
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phatnev
Well-known
Chris101 said:Hey Chris!
It's good to see you again - no, really!
Don't dump yer Nikons yet dude (and at 500K exposures, they're ready to drop anyway.) Rangefinders don't shoot everything, just like there are better tools than a dslr for some stuff. And listen to these guys when they tell you to start out slowly. There are aspects to RF shooting that are not obvious, and must be learned by experience. And if you don't click with it (and don't knee jerk say you will, cause you just don't know until you do it) then you will be stuck with some expensive junk.
I was told by the quintessential Leica fanatic that 90 percent of all good 35mm photos are made with a 50mm, so maybe that's the place to start. But the f/1 is huge, and only gets as close as one meter. Another thing, such a big lens will block more of your viewfinder than a smaller lens would.
Speaking of viewfinder, that's another area you should look at. If you are gonna shoot wide, say 35 or 28mm, you will want a wide VF, or as they call it in Leicaland, 0.78. Anything wider (like the CV 12mm) and you'll need an external VF. If you are shooting a 50mm, you might appreciate 0.85 more. That will lead to more accurate focusing, and more comfortable framing.
If I had your money, I'd get an MP through the ala Carte service - black, no engraving, and the angled rewind knob. You can always $ell it for about what you'll pay if it doesn't work out between you two.
eta: just saw you are getting a 35mm lens. Cool, that's what I have.
Ahhh Chris! I was hoping there were no hard feelings harbored after all that NC crap. I hope youre doing well? I think I may buy a 50mm cron, old school style, maybe a DR, in the very near future, or even when I get my M6/MP. I may not let myself use it, and just use the 35lux until I've got the hang of it and then move into the 50. Im sure the Noctilux will be in my posession sooner or later, but you're right, it is quite large, and thats not useful for daytime photography where the top shutter speed of 1/1000th relegates any ftop under 4 pretty much useless. You have a M4-P right? How do you like that? I cant say Ive ever met someone who hated their M
Chris101
summicronia
None what so ever!
You know they make slow film, right? You can even get 25 B&W, and there are ND filters, so if you're gonna get a nocti'x, do it! Check out some of the work NB23 has done with his, that'll help push you over the edge. But if you really want to spend 3 grand on a normal lens, the summalux does good work. So yeah, ala carte MP (5K) and 50 1.4 (3K) so there's your 8 thousand dollars, and you can still do the one lens, one camera thing, just in style!
Oh, uh yeah, when spending my own money, I went for an m4p and a cv 35 f/1.7.
You know they make slow film, right? You can even get 25 B&W, and there are ND filters, so if you're gonna get a nocti'x, do it! Check out some of the work NB23 has done with his, that'll help push you over the edge. But if you really want to spend 3 grand on a normal lens, the summalux does good work. So yeah, ala carte MP (5K) and 50 1.4 (3K) so there's your 8 thousand dollars, and you can still do the one lens, one camera thing, just in style!
Oh, uh yeah, when spending my own money, I went for an m4p and a cv 35 f/1.7.
phatnev
Well-known
Chris101 said:None what so ever!
You know they make slow film, right? You can even get 25 B&W, and there are ND filters, so if you're gonna get a nocti'x, do it! Check out some of the work NB23 has done with his, that'll help push you over the edge. But if you really want to spend 3 grand on a normal lens, the summalux does good work. So yeah, ala carte MP (5K) and 50 1.4 (3K) so there's your 8 thousand dollars, and you can still do the one lens, one camera thing, just in style!
Oh, uh yeah, when spending my own money, I went for an m4p and a cv 35 f/1.7.
I think an A La Carte is out.....I've never been one for that kinda stuff, just not my style. I think a used MP can be had for about $2500, and a 35mm 1.4 should be about 2grand or so. I reaaaaaaaaaaally want to buy a Noct, which is kinda why Im shying away from a 50 to start with. Nenad's work is retardedly good, its on a whole seperate plane. It makes me want the Noct so bad, ugh, I think there's one for sale in the classifieds. If I can dump this plastic junk on someone else and I find one for a good price, I see no reason not to snatch it up. I think I may end up with a nice stable. Hopefully I'll have 4 bodies, with 4 lenses eventually, but for now I think one and one would be quite enough....plus if I shy away from that A la carte menu I can fly myself to Europa, and maybe never come back haha.