State of the film market 2020

[das]

Definitely agree that it is nice to be able to use everything right now. However, the only thing that is "mainstream" right now is camera phones. Digital SLRs / mirrorless, outside of professionals, are a small drop in the bucket compared to them. In fact, besides my brother, almost none of my friends or large family currently use anything other than their phones to take pictures - for no matter how important an occasion is in their lives.

But then again, it isn't exactly mainstream and most likely never will be... I think that was the point more than it being a fad. It's a good time for photography though (technically speaking). You can currently use all of the tools that have existed since its birth and that is a wider range than ever.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Looks like film's comeback is not some kind of "temporary fad" as so many have tried to argue. 🙂.

Costco just announced it was closing all its photo centers due to lack of demand.
So, there’s that.

https://petapixel.com/2021/01/13/costco-is-closing-all-photo-centers-by-february-14/

 

[Corran]

Due to lack of print sales (I'm guessing especially in 2020 - most people just ordered online, and they are still offering it there).

What does this have to do with film? I don't believe they developed film anymore. At least from what I know - all of the Sam's and Costco stores near me stopped that around 2012. Part of the reason I jumped to developing my own.

 

[CMur12]

Costco just announced it was closing all its photo centers due to lack of demand.
So, there’s that.

https://petapixel.com/2021/01/13/costco-is-closing-all-photo-centers-by-february-14/

Larry, Costco's objective isn't to cater to a niche market. They would require larger numbers than many others to consider it profitable. This has been the challenge of both producers and sellers: Transitioning from mass market to niche market, while still making a profit.

I don't think film will ever grow beyond niche market status, but I would like to see it become a strong enough market to ensure survival of the medium. This is what I look for in such reports.

- Murray

 

[agentlossing]

Costco's demand went away a long time ago, I think that was years overdue from a balance sheet perspective. Doesn't really have any bearing on the demand for film since they referenced the photo printing being their reason.

 

[jsrockit]

Definitely agree that it is nice to be able to use everything right now. However, the only thing that is "mainstream" right now is camera phones. Digital SLRs / mirrorless, outside of professionals, are a small drop in the bucket compared to them. In fact, besides my brother, almost none of my friends or large family currently use anything other than their phones to take pictures - for no matter how important an occasion is in their lives.

Very true... though I know a lot more digital photographers than film photographers. Most regular Joe pros would be digital... I think artists are where you find a lot of film use.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Due to lack of print sales (I'm guessing especially in 2020 - most people just ordered online, and they are still offering it there).

What does this have to do with film? I don't believe they developed film anymore. At least from what I know - all of the Sam's and Costco stores near me stopped that around 2012. Part of the reason I jumped to developing my own.

Okay, my bad.

 

[TheMapleLeafForever]

Definitely agree that it is nice to be able to use everything right now. However, the only thing that is "mainstream" right now is camera phones. Digital SLRs / mirrorless, outside of professionals, are a small drop in the bucket compared to them. In fact, besides my brother, almost none of my friends or large family currently use anything other than their phones to take pictures - for no matter how important an occasion is in their lives.

I was very surprised by this and it seems absolutely true. Before COVID I went on a trip to Europe with a class of university students and I was the only one to bring a DSLR.

 

[Disappointed_Horse]

I was very surprised by this and it seems absolutely true. Before COVID I went on a trip to Europe with a class of university students and I was the only one to bring a DSLR.

I live in a very touristy state and have a child, so I have been to a lot of school events, performances, etc., pre-COVID-19. I don't think I've seen anyone shooting a DSLR or digital compact in the wild in at least five years. It's all phones.



I have seen a couple of hipsters with manual focus 35mm SLRs, but didn't see them shooting them a whole lot.

 

[jsrockit]

Well, the bright side is it is certainly easier to steal and sell a nice phone than a big camera...

 

[George Mann]

Even the Nikon F and F2 need service every few decades.

This depends mainly on how many shutter actuations the camera sees in this timeframe, the environment in which it is used, as well as accounting for sensor drift affecting meter accuracy.


A CLA every 10 years may be sufficient for the casual user. Professional use averages every 1 to 2 years.

 

[agentlossing]

Well, sadly Fujifilm has announced they are discontinuing Pro 400H in 135 and 120. That's really too bad as I had kind of settled on it as my preferred faster color film, with price being the main barrier up till now. I have a couple rolls. At least Superia 400 is a pretty good film. Fuji cited difficulty of obtaining raw materials.

 

[Takkun]

Well, sadly Fujifilm has announced they are discontinuing Pro 400H in 135 and 120. That's really too bad as I had kind of settled on it as my preferred faster color film, with price being the main barrier up till now. I have a couple rolls. At least Superia 400 is a pretty good film. Fuji cited difficulty of obtaining raw materials.

Just saw that on Petapixel. Just as I start to get used to a film stock...

I always had a feeling the color market would eventually fade out even as new BW stock started coming out. I just wasn't expecting it from Fuji, nor Kodak to reintroduce Ektachrome.

Oh well, as long as I can keep Ektar and Velvia, I'll be happy.

 

[HHPhoto]

I was wondering , besides Adox that has posted encouraging news , did any other companies offer updates ?

Yes,
Kodak, Ilford, Fujifilm, Jobo, Foma, SPUR and lots of others.
And all of them reporting increasing demand.
Interestingly, wheras the pandemic has accelerated the collapse in digital camera sales last year (see the CIPA numbers), the pandemic hasn't had a negative effect on film demand.
That is a very good sign of the robustness of the film revival.

Several film types are permanently sold out because demand is surpassing supply by a big margin. Especially Kodak and Fujifilm - but partly Ilford as well - have difficulties to keep up with demand. Both have to invest in new film confectioning capacities.

Is the market still growing ? From the anecdotal evidence I have ( my local film supplier regularly selling out of certain film stocks ) i'd say the market is still growing .

Yes, it is further growing. Some companies as lab equipment manufacturers and photo chemistry manufacturers have even reported accelerated growth rates.

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

I was checking out the price of 4x5” color transparency film.... OMG!

Fujichrome Provia 100F is the cheapest 4x5" color film on the market. Much cheaper than all Kodak color negative films.

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

Looks like film's comeback is not some kind of "temporary fad" as so many have tried to argue. 🙂.

Lots of members here have tried to lecture other members that it is just a very small and short living "fad".
And even more have said that it isn't even a fad, but that film demand is declining and film will vanish soon.
And they have bashed those members who have reported the positive data and the details about the film resurgence.
And none of them has so far shown insight / discernment and admitted that they have been wrong.

Cheers, Jan

 

[HHPhoto]

Recently pulled a Noritsu minilab out of storage and started a lab with a couple of guys. In 4 months its turned into my full time job - doing 150+ rolls some days. Currently have issues getting cheap colour neg film, we’ve got a lot of Kodak Colorplus on back order with a wholesaler who say they have a back order with Kodak for over 100,000 rolls. This is in the UK and compared to 10 years ago when our Noritsu was last in action the demand has increased dramatically.

Good to hear!
May I ask which lab it is - name and location?

I have heard such success stories from lots of new labs from all over the world.
And my local preferred camera store here in my town has survived as a physical store because they always continued with their in-house mini-lab with film processing and making prints on real photo paper (silver-halide, process RA-4). That has always been their "cash-cow" and has kept them alive. Not the digital camera sales with its brutal price competition from online shops.

My local professional lab made about 10% of its revenue with film a decade ago. Now it is again their biggest business with more than 60% revenue, and has seen again a significant increase last year. Lots of the customers are young(er) photographers. But also a lot middle-aged digital photographers who have come back to film.

Cheers, Jan

 

[Bill Clark]

I hope film is around for a long time.

And happy demand has picked up.

I wonder how many of the high volume users still use film? Or is it more of a niche market anymore?

For me, I use film only because of nostalgia. I still have my darkroom and have plenty of chemistry and film.

My daughter is married to a gent who is in the Hollywood scene. They live near Pasadena CA. For where he works it’s 100% digital.

When I had my business, I was really happy when I went 100% digital. My mentor and coach kept prodding me to go 100% digital and that was in 2004. When I first met him, I told him I was 100% film. He said, “You have to go digital. And, besides, how am I going to evaluate your work when you are here (Sarastoa FL) if it takes a day or so to get get your film developed and printed? And what about your clients who will probably want to see some photographs you make the day of the event?”

I’m not trying to diss film or film users. But what I just typed here is reality in my world at least among those I know who are making a decent living with photography.

Bless all you film users. Hope it works out for you. Or maybe photography is a hobby, or a sideline?

 

[Skiff]

I wonder how many of the high volume users still use film? Or is it more of a niche market anymore?

Due to the film manufacturers they estimate the market of professional film photographers (those who are using both film and digital and those who are using exclusively film) of more than 10,000 globally, and increasing.
Mainly wedding and portrait photographers, nature and travel photographers, artists.

And the number of high(er) volume enthusiast film shooters, who are using more than 50 films p.a., of several hundred thousands.
And several million film shooters with less than 25 films p.a. consumption.

 

[Andy Kibber]

Bless all you film users. Hope it works out for you. Or maybe photography is a hobby, or a sideline?

Thanks for your blessing! 😀

I enjoy my film photography hobby immensely. Doing client work with film would be very difficult, for the reasons your mentor identified back in 2004.