summar or elmar

[vic225]

hi! what do you guys think about these lens? I want to get one for super compact use with the III... i have a coll. summicron on my m3.. and now using a canon 50 1.5 on the III... what do you guys suggest?.. i think the more difference with the summicron the better or i will have 2 very similar lens....

 

[Bingley]

On your criteria, the Summar will give you the most difference in look from the collapsible chron or Canon 50/1.5, but finding a Summar in good condition will be a challenge. The Elmar 50/3.5 will be the most compact shooting package for your III. My impression is that these are easier to find since there were so many of them made. If you look for an uncoated Elmar, that will still give you a different look from either of your other 50s. IMO, the Elmar 50/3.5, while somewhat fiddly to use, is a sweet little lens and makes your III quite pocketable when collapsed.

Edit: I should add one other suggestion: consider an uncoated Summitar as an option. The Summitar was the predecessor to the Summicron, yet has its own charms. The uncoated versions will give you a vintage look if that's what you're after.

 

[vic225]

hmmm then with compactness and vintage look... which one would you suggest?.. also.. is the elmar fast enough for indoors??

 

[Austerby]

I have both. The Elmar is the most compact of the two - it is a really tiny lens when collapsed. The performance can be astonishingly good for such an old and small piece of glass.

The Summar is larger, closer to the collapsable Summicron and Summitar lenses in size and operation - eg the aperture ring around the lens rather than at the front as is the case with the Elmar.

Of the two, the Elmar is in better condition so I can't really compare; I enjoy using both, for different reasons. f3.5 is slow for indoors, but usable.

Another option for a really compact lens is the 3.5cm Elmar f3.5 - I also have one of these. It's very shallow and doesn't extend, unlike the 50mm lenses. Of course you'd really need an external viewfinder but I quite enjoy the guesswork of using it without one on my IIIa.

To reiterate the former point, the condition of these lenses varies hugely, but as they're not generally expensive you can try all of them for less than the cost of a newer lens.

 

[lawnpotter]

Austerby. Do you use the internal viewfinder of your IIIa for the Elmar 35mm? I would like to get one for my Standard. To me it seems that the Barnack view finder is wider than 50mm.

 

[Austerby]

Austerby. Do you use the internal viewfinder of your IIIa for the Elmar 35mm?.

No. I do have an external one but rarely use it. It's more point and guess with the IIIa, which works reasonably well as the 35mm viewpoint is quite natural.

 

[Bingley]

On the use of an Elmar 50/3.5 indoors or in low light settings, yes, it can be done w/ higher iso film. Check out some of the photos of RFF member maddoc, who has some nice samples of night shots taken w/ this lens. Also keep in mind that a faster vintage lens, such as a Summar or Summitar, shot wide open to handle indoor or night-time lighting is likely to be pretty soft, so even w/ these lenses you may want to shoot w/ higher iso film and stop the lenses down a bit (unless you're specifically looking for a soft, dreamy-type image).

 

[vic225]

well i normally shoot with iso400 films... is that enough??

 

[Rico]

well i normally shoot with iso400 films... is that enough??

At 100 ASA, here are my rough guidelines: EV 15 for broad day (from which "Sunny 16" can be derived); EV 12 for light outcast, open shade, and near windows with those conditions; EV 7 for a modern office, EV 5 for brighter parts of the home, EV 2 for those pubs where it's hard to read the menu. Since we're shootings RFs, let's be charitable and say 1/30s is okay at 50mm (1/f and all that jolly rot). At ISO 400, the Elmar works (barely) in the office, but you need ISO 1600 for the home. I really like the Elmar 1:3.5 but consider it a lens for outside or window light. For indoors, I prefer ISO 800 (Fuji Reporter/Superia) and the Summilux. Standard dilemma for indoor available light: no DOF or no exposure. 🙂

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

With a III the original (VIDOM) universal VF is a pita as it reverses things left to right and worse in portrait mode. The more modern one (VIOOH) is better but both are expensive. Best to get a simple one for 35mm (dozen of different makers) or the Japanese made "Helios" one that came with FED's and Zorkis originally.

And there's the frame finder (RASUK) but again you've got to have deep pockets or a lot of luck on ebay. And they can be in a very sorry state when bought, once the frame gets twisted off the hinge pin it becomes a time consuming (or expensive) job to repair.

Ignoring the cost in £sd, it boils down to a choice between authenticity or usability. Or both: for display and use...

Regards, David

 

[vic225]

Well i frequently shoot 1/15 without much problems...
Elmar is so compact! But the swirly bokeh looks so good on summar!..

 

[ChipMcD]

Untitled by AmSteinsgraben, on Flickr

Summar, probably f5.6.


Untitled by AmSteinsgraben, on Flickr

Summar, probably f2.8 or 3.5


Untitled by AmSteinsgraben, on Flickr

Elmar, probably f5.6

As another poster said above, a Summar in good condition is tough to find. There were a lot more Elmars made. Between the two, I think I prefer the Elmar. At least, I use it more often.

 

[Bingley]

Well i frequently shoot 1/15 without much problems...
Elmar is so compact! But the swirly bokeh looks so good on summar!..

If you already have a Canon 50/1.5, you've got a good lens for use indoors and in low light settings if you don't mind the shallow dof. So if I were you I'd get the Elmar 50/3.5 now, enjoy it as a compact lens for shooting in daylight, and save for a Summar later.

I often use a CV 50 brightline finder on my IIIc, for framing purposes. Really bright, and not that expensive (compared to the alternatives).

 

[bowieknife]

if money is no issue: consider the 5cm Hektor, compact like the Elmar, uncoated, gives a vintage look like the Summar

 

[vic225]

If you already have a Canon 50/1.5, you've got a good lens for use indoors and in low light settings if you don't mind the shallow dof. So if I were you I'd get the Elmar 50/3.5 now, enjoy it as a compact lens for shooting in daylight, and save for a Summar later.

I often use a CV 50 brightline finder on my IIIc, for framing purposes. Really bright, and not that expensive (compared to the alternatives).

yea i was thinking of that.... but summar seems cheaper than elmar here in hong kong....
as for the cv finder.. is it discontinued now??