Tetenal is No More

[Ted Striker]

Just to bolster what I said earlier, the scare tactics and survivalist mentality might want to be put on hold, for now.

What can Tetenal UK do if the German Tetenal ceases to exist? I'm not saying that's going to happen, but just as an example, could they continue?

 

[Hogarth Ferguson]

I don't require a specific formulation of C41 chemistry, so stockpiling isn't necessary. I'll be happy to give Photosys a try (for C41 and E6) now that I know they're "local". I see prices but no way to purchase directly from their web site. I'll be happy to give them a call and figure it out when the time comes. It's curious that they're conducting business but apparently not well promoted. If I would have known about them earlier I would have given them a try by now.

Photosys is the company behind most branded kits, such as FPP or Cinestill or Arista or anything like that.

 

[jawarden]

Photosys is the company behind most branded kits, such as FPP or Cinestill or Arista or anything like that.

Ah, very interesting, thanks. And now their lack of web based direct sales makes sense.

(I get all the chemistry I can from FPP so I'm apparently a Photosys customer already.)

 

[B-9]

I did not realize that either?

Interesting!

 

[jawarden]

Perhaps the title of this thread can be adjusted to align with the latest news - "Tetenal is No More" seemed accurate at first, but not so much now.

 

[Hogarth Ferguson]

What can Tetenal UK do if the German Tetenal ceases to exist? I'm not saying that's going to happen, but just as an example, could they continue?

I am not 100% versed on the exact inner workings, so take what I'm saying with that in mind. I'd speculate that much like when Target in Canada went under it did not affect Target in the US. It was a venture that did not work out.

If that is the same situation, it would cause no disruptions. However, I'm under the impression, from people more close to the matter than I am, that the management/employees will be buying the Tetenal Germany and beginning production again.

As HHphoto said, though, Tetenal is a large company doing much more than just photo stuff. It is very possible that, given the photo department seems to have been profitable, it is one of the areas that they will want to get up and running most quickly.

There might be reason to worry, but I don't think that time is yet, not at least until everything is fleshed out.

I am not the most articulate person, so while I feel like I understand what is going on as my friend (who has spoken directly with Tetenal), I cannot properly write it down, so apologies.

 

[michaelwj]

Kodak HC-110 is a formula owned by Kodak. No one is making it without their permission.

HC110 was first sold in the early 1960's, so if there is a patent, then it's expired. So the formula is not owned by anyone. It does appear to be a secret however, kept by Kodak, in much the same way as Coca Cola is. So anyone can make it without permission, but you just need the recipe.

On the other hand, does anyone really think Kodak will just cease production because one manufacturer goes under? Especially as they release more and more films? Chemicals aren't that hard to mix.

 

[Ted Striker]

HC110 was first sold in the early 1960's, so if there is a patent, then it's expired. So the formula is not owned by anyone. It does appear to be a secret however, kept by Kodak, in much the same way as Coca Cola is. So anyone can make it without permission, but you just need the recipe.

On the other hand, does anyone really think Kodak will just cease production because one manufacturer goes under? Especially as they release more and more films? Chemicals aren't that hard to mix.

We are talking about a supply disruption, not a permanent end to production.

 

[michaelwj]

We are talking about a supply disruption, not a permanent end to production.

You kinda were.
I doubt they’ll be any disruption.

 

[mod2001]

Even the most casual inspection can demonstrate that Ilford HC is NOT the same as Kodak's HC-110. The viscosity of the concentrate is significantly different.

You are aware that we have in Europe also a different concentrated version of Kodak's HC-110. it needs 1+9 instead of 1+31 for dilution B.
Anyhow, I developed a lot with both and can't see any significant difference in the results.

Juergen

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Worst case scenario, just another reason to use more Pyrocat🙂

 

[Ted Striker]

You are aware that we have in Europe also a different concentrated version of Kodak's HC-110. it needs 1+9 instead of 1+31 for dilution B.
Anyhow, I developed a lot with both and can't see any significant difference in the results.

Juergen

Regardless, I see major chemical differences in the MSDS disclosures between the two proving that they are not the same formulation as erroneously stated earlier in the thread. Of course the results are similar, but they are not the same. A quick google search over at APUG shows many threads discussing the differences between the two developers by users of each.

 

[Ted Striker]

I doubt they’ll be any disruption.

That would be nice.

 

[randy stewart]

Let's drop this.

Let's drop this.

Very interesting. Why are they not more well known?

The answer to your semi-question is that they are. Most folks recognize the company as the producer of Unicolor products. They have been in the business of DIY home color processing for more than 45 years. Back in the 70-80s, they produced an extensive inventory of color home processing equipment, arguably the best in the business at the time.

This thread is the dumbest exchange of non-information I've witnessed in the year of so I've been a member. The two or three principals here clearly have argued from presumptions rather than known facts. The arguments are over the future existence of a company they know little about and the outcome of which is unknowable at this time. So stop making fools of yourselves and drop it.

 

[Ted Striker]

The answer to your semi-question is that they are.

As demonstrated earlier in this thread, they are NOT well known. Several in this thread as well as another thread elsewhere have shown clearly that this company is virtually unknown by expressing great surprise. Your assumptions are mistaken.

This thread is the dumbest exchange of non-information I've witnessed in the year of so I've been a member. The two or three principals here clearly have argued from presumptions rather than known facts. The arguments are over the future existence of a company they know little about and the outcome of which is unknowable at this time. So stop making fools of yourselves and drop it.

No, I think I'll continue as I see fit. I hope others do as well. You don't get to decide what is posted here.

 

[Ted Striker]

A VERY fascinating article about Tetenal's current financial situation. A great read that truly introduces the company and its importance to photography, for those who don't know all the details. the conclusion of the article is very positive about Tetenal's possibility to emerge stronger from bankruptcy.

https://petapixel.com/2019/02/01/a-closer-look-at-tetenal-a-photo-firm-thats-too-important-to-fail/

 

[Ted Striker]

I dropped by the local camera store and found that there's been a minor run on developing chemicals. I snagged the last bottle of HC-110. The store owner said they sold more HC-110 in the past week than in the past 6 months.
I guess the word is out about Tetenal.

 

[Argentia1]

A VERY fascinating article about Tetenal's current financial situation. A great read that truly introduces the company and its importance to photography, for those who don't know all the details. the conclusion of the article is very positive about Tetenal's possibility to emerge stronger from bankruptcy.

https://petapixel.com/2019/02/01/a-closer-look-at-tetenal-a-photo-firm-thats-too-important-to-fail/

Most of the article is correct, but nevertheless there are some mistakes in it. For example concerning E6 chemistry. Most labs are running the standard original 6/7 bath process in their roller transport, dip-and-dunk or ATL machines. Besides Tetenal there are Fujifilm (as the biggest player) and Bellini delivering these chemicals (in bulk) to the labs. So there will be no shortage at all.
Only some of the very new, tiny "hipster-labs" are using the Tetenal 3bath process.

 

[Argentia1]

Tetenal has been a very diversified company with many different product groups. Lots of them in the digital imaging business. And mainly these digital product groups have caused severe problems in the past! The production of photo chemistry was not their problem. The decreasing demand in digital broke their neck.

It is exactly that.
The digital products like inkjet inks and papers and distribution of digital-related products have been their major problem. With the current insolvency they can probably get rid of that.
And can continue as New-Tetenal with their profitable photo chemistry production.

 

[Ted Striker]

It is exactly that.
The digital products like inkjet inks and papers and distribution of digital-related products have been their major problem. With the current insolvency they can probably get rid of that.
And can continue as New-Tetenal with their profitable photo chemistry production.

What I don't understand is this: If the digital business for Tetenal was so bad, why did they not close it down earlier? Why ride a poorly performing business down into insolvency? 99% of companies close down poorly performing units to avoid losing money.

Because Tetenal did not make this obvious move, it leads me to believe there is something more structurally wrong with their business. Insolvency is something to be avoided at all costs.