Thorsten Overgaard on the M10

[johannielscom]

Oh come on people, Leica would not have lasted the way it does now if it had not taken this path.

They would have shribbled into nothingness and be bought by Sony and the likes just before extinction. Like Jaguar was bought by Ford, bringing forth to the world the marvellous design line of Fordulars, the most hideous cars known in the existence of a design-icon automotive brand...

Someday (soon?) there will be a busload of able-bodied M9's on eBay for a song because the worlds rich have ditched them since the M12 was launched and they cannot be seen boating off Saint-Tropez with last year's model 😀😀

 

[Araakii]

Unlike Hermes, a Leica is a tool to create - not merely extravagant consumption. But that's not where the brand is heading, it seems. And it may be the key to their survival.

M6 or M7 were more expensive 15-20 years ago than they are now. If you were an artist, you should be happy because now you can own a fine tool for much less money. If you just want a tool to create work, you don't need the newest model.

 

[Araakii]

Oh come on people, Leica would not have lasted the way it does now if it had not taken this path.

They would have shribbled into nothingness and be bought by Sony and the likes just before extinction. Like Jaguar was bought by Ford, bringing forth to the world the marvellous design line of Fordulars, the most hideous cars known in the existence of a design-icon automotive brand...

Someday (soon?) there will be a busload of able-bodied M9's on eBay for a song because the worlds rich have ditched them since the M12 was launched and they cannot be seen boating off Saint-Tropez with last year's model 😀😀

That's right. The more Leica charges the better because that means those who chase after the newest stuff will be the ones who fund our gears in the future.

 

[semilog]

Oh come on people, Leica would not have lasted the way it does now if it had not taken this path.

Leica at one time made the best products and priced them accordingly. The company's current leader now says out front that high selling price is a goal for its own sake.

Good business, maybe —

 

[Cron]

a real pleasure to read!
Thanks for the informative link!
Regards from Vienna

PS: he will come to Vienna for a workshop but I am sorry, I am not able to spend 2000 bucks for it :-(

 

[DominikDUK]

A purely B/W Leica why not, most Leica users shoot B/W Film if the IQ is good I believe there is a market. Phase One has a purely B/W Digi Back the Achromatic+ so there has got to be at least a niche market.

Dominik

 

[Araakii]

Leica at one time made the best products and priced them accordingly. The company's current leader now says out front that high selling price is a goal for its own sake.

Good business, maybe —

Maybe that's just another way of saying that they will continue to make the high end products (and price them accordingly). They are still making the "best" products for a small target customer base. These people are not that dumb if they can afford this kind of things. They know exactly what they are getting and they know it's worth every buck.

 

[mfogiel]

If Mr Overgaard wanted to do Leica a service, he should have used a less flary lens than the Summicron 50 ( a Planar, or a Summilux ASPH perhaps?...), shot it all on film, and applied some noise reduction technique, in order to make it look more plastic, and digital like, but with decent tonality - at least one could have been induced to think, that a B&W digital is aceptable after all...

 

[dave lackey]

Totally agree. I'm not being a Leica basher at all. Promise. My main camera is an M6 and Ive owned an M8. I love the idea of Leica... Honest.

Sometimes, however, I wish they would take themselves a bit more seriously as a producer of tools is all. Lose the Panasonic cameras, lose the special editions, etc... And instead, focus on making the best rangefinders in the world. I know they got bit once before doing that (the m5), but I'd love to see them try again.

Just my opinion. I don't think you are an idiot if you pay 9k for a BW Camera. Hell, if I had the dough I prolly would too! I'd certainly own an M9 anyhow...

Leica has shown record profits in the last few years because they know what they are doing. IMO, anyone who wants Leica to change their direction is both ignorant of Leica's own research, marketing and business strategies in a real world and also not able to grasp the complex world in which Leica must operate to not only survive but to keep this wonderful business prospering in an ever-changing world.

I know that I would never try to second guess Leica about Leica. YMMV.:angel:

In regard to the price, whatever.... not an issue for me.

 

[Florian1234]

No comment on this from me.

 

[Ryan1938]

Leica has shown record profits in the last few years because they know what they are doing. IMO, anyone who wants Leica to change their direction is both ignorant of Leica's own research, marketing and business strategies in a real world and also not able to grasp the complex world in which Leica must operate to not only survive but to keep this wonderful business prospering in an ever-changing world.

I know that I would never try to second guess Leica about Leica. YMMV.:angel:

In regard to the price, whatever.... not an issue for me.

I know... Its prolly the silly value proposition of the red dot Panasonic that even allows them to go to market with the M8, M9, and M10. That, however, doesn't mean I have to like the fact that they are openly becoming more and more fashion focused.

The whole thing kind of reminds me of Breitling watches in a way.

We all know it will never happen, but you do have to wonder what would happen if Leica provided an m-solution of somekind for under $3500. A tool built to be used by professionals and priced dependent on value/cost.

 

[dct]

He is like a knowledgeable and skilled Ken Rockwell.

This is a good one! 😎

 

[Teuthida]

Leica at one time made the best products and priced them accordingly. The company's current leader now says out front that high selling price is a goal for its own sake.

Good business, maybe —

Well said. Leica is mostly irrelevant for serious photography. Its become a fashion statement, and thats how Leica wants it, because as "fashion" they can charge exorbitant prices.

 

[jsrockit]

The idea of the BW camera, especially in this price range, kind of baffles me. Sometimes Leica frustrates me so much with their countless special editions, strange market intros, etc...

I wish their business directives were as simple as the M3. Sometimes, I think they should have stopped right there.

Good thing you don't run things over at Leica... 😛 (jokes)

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

So is it now the time to complain about how bad the M10 is and begin to speculate on how the M11 will be too expensive? Well, I think the complaining about how bad the M10 already is has been around for a few years, but I guess now it'll be official? Oh and the Nikon D3 is better.

😉

 

[raytoei@gmail.com]

i like the bit where it is suggested that a B&W Digital M to convert all the film users over to the new medium. This is a good business case for Leica, no ?

The other thing is T.O. is involved in Leica early access program I think, so what is he telling us ? A new M that isn't a M10 but a derivative like the CL ?

raytoei

 

[jsrockit]

Oh, no Gabriel... the D800e will be the thorn in the M10's side. 😉

 

[Ryan1938]

i like the bit where it is suggested that a B&W Digital M to convert all the film users over to the new medium. This is a good business case for Leica, no ?

The other thing is T.O. is involved in Leica early access program I think, so what is he telling us ? A new M that isn't a M10 but a derivative like the CL ?

raytoei

Like I said, if I could afford it I would own an m9... I'm sure I'd own an m10 as well if it comes out like many predict. A BW only camera that runs more than an M9? Wow. Really? I can't wait to see what it's all about. Maybe it's magical.

All that said, do any of you guys go from your film m to your digital m and notice the tangible differences? Is it just me or does even my M6 feel more "polished" than an M9 operationally? The M3 almost certainly does.

That's the one thing nobody can ever take from Leica - the best film cameras and the best glass in the world.

 

[Araakii]

Like I said, if I could afford it I would own an m9... I'm sure I'd own an m10 as well if it comes out like many predict. A BW only camera that runs more than an M9? Wow. Really? I can't wait to see what it's all about. Maybe it's magical.

All that said, do any of you guys go from your film m to your digital m and notice the tangible differences? Is it just me or does even my M6 feel more "polished" than an M9 operationally? The M3 almost certainly does.

That's the one thing nobody can ever take from Leica - the best film cameras and the best glass in the world.

I went back to the M6 after using the M9 but I have no problem with anyone buying a new Leica. I don't understand why people have to justify their inability to own a new Leica by calling someone else the social climbers, the profane moneygrubbers or the wannabe nouveau riche. It's no problem if you don't have the money.

 

[Araakii]

Well said. Leica is mostly irrelevant for serious photography. Its become a fashion statement, and thats how Leica wants it, because as "fashion" they can charge exorbitant prices.

I wonder what's serious photography to you?