Thorsten Overgaard on the M10

[Sejanus.Aelianus]

What is the difference between serious photography and any other kind of photography?

I've often noticed how, to people without our obsession, a not very sharp picture of a loved one is far more important than anything by Adams, Karsh or Cartier-Bresson

 

[jsrockit]

Well said. Leica is mostly irrelevant for serious photography. Its become a fashion statement, and thats how Leica wants it, because as "fashion" they can charge exorbitant prices.

Honestly, I have never met someone who owns a Leica just to show it off (without making any photos). I think this is an internet (and RFF) myth. People who are trying to flaunt their money know that cameras are not the way to do it ... there are way better objects in the world that people will actually recognize. Leica is not as well known as you think...most non-photographers do not know the brand exists.

 

[Ryan1938]

Well, I'm certainly not a serious photographer. In fact, I suck on most levels... But I have so much fun with my M6. It's just a glorious experience. That experience lacked a bit with the M8 that i owned and wasn't ideal with the M9 that I borrowed.

I have a fuji x-pro 1 now and have just as much fun with it as I had with the m9 for far less money... Neither can touch my M6. And I'm not all together sure why. I'm not a film snob at all... The m6 just feels so much more in hand.

In a dream world, they'd come up with some kind of digital back for the M6, sell it for like 6k, and then I'd be in heaven.

 

[jsrockit]

I'm not a film snob at all... The m6 just feels so much more in hand.

I'm all digital these days, own a M9 and the Fujis, and can seriously say that I feel the same way as you. There is just something special about the film Ms. That said, I think there is something special about the M9 too...just not as much so. You have to hand it to Leica for getting close to the film m with the M9. I mean they had to stick a computer in nearly the same form factor.

 

[furcafe]

AF, yes, & the accessory shoe, yes, but not the hot shoe (I think that was Bell & Howell for their Foton in 1948).

+1
Thorsten's is a great read as usual. Very well written.

"It was Leica that invented the auto focus since 1960 (and also some unnamed Leica executive who said nobody would want it why they sold the rights), and it was Leica that invented the hot shoe for flash. And the list goes on..."

I didn't know that the auto focus and hot shoe were Leica's contribution to the photography world.

 

[icebear]

quote from Overgaard :
What about the M10 then ..?
"The Leica M9 is quite perfect, so why bother?" you might say. At least that is what I am thinking. I am not in need of a Leica M10 anytime soon.


I took the plunge and bought a used M9 from one of our sponsors and since my old desktop is running on XP I can't use the LR4 download right now.

Just downloading the JPG fine files and saving the DNG's for later, I am already truly amazed by the almost 3D like effect of these files. My wife looking over my shoulder "...if the pictures were moving, you'd believe to be in there"

For me this is way ahead of any amateur film result being dependent on a service lab for development and printing. Any scientific comparison might squeeze a little more resolution out of a low ISO film but in MY real world ... this little M9 just rocks. I'll post some of my first pics later.

I totally agree with Mr. O.
For me this M9 is more than sufficient. I'll still have a lot to learn to push it to its limits. It's a tool for taking pictures and it's a hell lot o' fun to use. I don't care about the investment value if a M10 is released anytime soon. Spending so much money on a camera is totally stupid - but heck, I'm enjoying it 😀😀😀.

 

[dave lackey]

quote from Overgaard :
What about the M10 then ..?
"The Leica M9 is quite perfect, so why bother?" you might say. At least that is what I am thinking. I am not in need of a Leica M10 anytime soon.


I took the plunge and bought a used M9 from one of our sponsors and since my old desktop is running on XP I can't use the LR4 download right now.

Just downloading the JPG fine files and saving the DNG's for later, I am already truly amazed by the almost 3D like effect of these files. My wife looking over my shoulder "...if the pictures were moving, you'd believe to be in there"

For me this is way ahead of any amateur film result being dependent on a service lab for development and printing. Any scientific comparison might squeeze a little more resolution out of a low ISO film but in MY real world ... this little M9 just rocks. I'll post some of my first pics later.

I totally agree with Mr. O.
For me this M9 is more than sufficient. I'll still have a lot to learn to push it to its limits. It's a tool for taking pictures and it's a hell lot o' fun to use. I don't care about the investment value if a M10 is released anytime soon. Spending so much money on a camera is totally stupid - but heck, I'm enjoying it 😀😀😀.

Cool.🙂

IMO, it would take a lifetime to approach truly mastering most any camera, let alone the excellent M9.:angel: There aren't many people in the contemporary world that would stick with a single camera/system for, say, 40 years like many older photographers who are still using their early M film bodies. Always looking for the next greatest thing with yet more bells and whistles.

Me? I still love my M3 and, please, all of you with M9s, please take care of them because the one you discard today could be mine in a few years.

 

[maggieo]

I'm all digital these days, own a M9 and the Fujis, and can seriously say that I feel the same way as you. There is just something special about the film Ms. That said, I think there is something special about the M9 too...just not as much so. You have to hand it to Leica for getting close to the film m with the M9. I mean they had to stick a computer in nearly the same form factor.

I have to say that my X100 feels more like my M2 than my M8 does. Though, with my sensor dying, both the M2 and the M8 are pretty much all-ISO 320-all-the-time now. 😱

 

[jsrockit]

There aren't many people in the contemporary world that would stick with a single camera/system for, say, 40 years like many older photographers who are still using their early M film bodies. Always looking for the next greatest thing with yet more bells and whistles.

While what you say is true Dave, perhaps it is because much of digital image technology is still evolving... and perhaps is still in its infancy. It remains to be seen which cameras become classics in which people keep them as their main camera for more than 5 years or so.

Always looking for the next greatest thing with yet more bells and whistles.

Many of us here are searching for the perfect digital camera WITHOUT any bells or whistles. 🙂

 

[dave lackey]

While what you say is true Dave, perhaps it is because much of digital image technology is still evolving... and perhaps is still in its infancy. It remains to be seen which cameras become classics in which people keep them as their main camera for more than 5 years or so.

Yes, but it seems "classic" is a term that is changing with every generation, and I cannot see 5 years as being but a mere blink of an eye.😛



Many of us here are searching for the perfect digital camera WITHOUT any bells or whistles. 🙂

Sounds like me! Give me the BW M9/M10 with NO bells and whistles, no screen. Just let me turn it on, set the aperture, speed, ISO, focus and shoot!

Why in the world is it that with all the computer power in the world today that we have to screw around with ISO, WB and screens? Eliminate that and I would be happy.:angel: And, btw, give me a heavy metal digital barnack with a similar body as the IIIf/g with no bells and whistles.

 

[semordnilap]

The other thing is T.O. is involved in Leica early access program I think, so what is he telling us ? A new M that isn't a M10 but a derivative like the CL ?

raytoei

Yes, this seems like it could be a very interesting development!

 

[hausen]

Not sure about others but I bought my M9 because I love using Leica rangefinder cameras and I wanted a digital camera option. If it has become fashionable while I own it I am fine with that. If Leica want to position themselves with Cartier, Rolex or whatever to distance themselves from the 2 big Japanese DSLR brands and ensure their survival again I am happy with that. Not sure my photographic efforts qualify as 'serious photography' but i spend a large chunk of my day thinking about it so is serious to me. Love my M9 and really enjoy how Thorsten writes about it and uses it. To call people insecure morons because they can afford to pay for what they like might be taking it a little far.

 

[Harry Lime]

If Leica could make a b/w M body that outperformed a film Leica shooting something like Tri-X in terms of dynamic range and tonality I would probably give in and finally go digital. We're talking 14 stops of range and 14-16bit color. I really don't care about high iso noise since it's black and white I would add grain anyway. If It could shoot a clean 3200asa I would be besides myself.

I am struggling to find the time to sort through dozens of rolls that are consumed on a project. I shot 22 rolls last night for a project and I am not looking forward to spending the next few days in front of the scanner.

Also recently I've had to shoot in locations with almost no light and was having fond memories of my now sold D700 that could practically see in the dark...

 

[AusDLK]

a mono M9 for more then the standard version, no thank you

 

[JayM]

It would be nice if they would concentrate on camera QC and ergonomics rather than novelty and hiding consumer electronics behind the tradition that the Leica of yesteryear's lenses AND cameras established. It seems like they've done a good job improving their lenses over the years, but when it comes to cameras they've been pot boiling since the mid 70s.

 

[dave lackey]

It would be nice if they would concentrate on camera QC and ergonomics rather than novelty and hiding consumer electronics behind the tradition that the Leica of yesteryear's lenses AND cameras established. It seems like they've done a good job improving their lenses over the years, but when it comes to cameras they've been pot boiling since the mid 70s.

Again, Leica has been making record profits, they do know what they are doing. If Leica changed their strategy as you suggest, IMO, it would be the end of Leica.

Why should it bother you anyway? If you don't like their products, buy something else. That is what I do, but I happen to like their products and buy the used ones down the road when they are affordable to me. YMMV but one has to understand that Leica is doing just fine and they know their business better than anyone on this forum or anywhere else.:angel:

 

[JayM]

Again, Leica has been making record profits, they do know what they are doing. If Leica changed their strategy as you suggest, IMO, it would be the end of Leica.

Why should it bother you anyway? If you don't like their products, buy something else. That is what I do, but I happen to like their products and buy the used ones down the road when they are affordable to me. YMMV but one has to understand that Leica is doing just fine and they know their business better than anyone on this forum or anywhere else.:angel:

I agree with everything you're saying. I suppose I am just wishful for something that existed in another time. Leica seems like the only company close enough to the old ways to have the potential to bring back what seems missing in modern equipment. Maybe it is just nostalgia that people feel, but I think it is more than that. That might be why others get so easily riled up about it too.

 

[dave lackey]

I agree with everything you're saying. I suppose I am just wishful for something that existed in another time. Leica seems like the only company close enough to the old ways to have the potential to bring back what seems missing in modern equipment. Maybe it is just nostalgia that people feel, but I think it is more than that. That might be why others get so easily riled up about it too.

Yes, I understand...:angel:

Seems the older I get the less I really think I do understand about anything, though, so it's good to have these dialogues. We all are one passionate bunch when it comes to photography!

 

[Araakii]

If Leica is not commited to make the best tool, or at least a good tool, they can just shut their R&D department down and keep pumping limited editions. At the end of the day, the quality of the product has to somewhat match the price that's being charged. As I said, the buyers know exactly what they are buying into. The people who can afford it are not some uneducated average person on the street.

Saying that the prices will remain high just means that the quality of the products will remain high. Lower prices mean lower quality glass and lower production cost.

 

[maddoc]

Honestly, I have never met someone who owns a Leica just to show it off (without making any photos). I think this is an internet (and RFF) myth. People who are trying to flaunt their money know that cameras are not the way to do it ...

Well ... from my experience of living in Japan I would tend to argue against that. 😉