To buy or not to buy...

I used Leica lenses on Bessa.
I'm using non-Leica lenses on M4-2 now.
It is two completely different things.
After handling of M film Leica I don't want another film camera only second M 🙂
After using of some Leica glass I don't mind to use non-Leica lens.
CV CS 35 2.5 PII is the 35mm I use and no intention to change it for Leitz.

i used the CV 35mm 2.5 I and II for many, many years. it would be a very discerning individual who argue against it (the VC).

if you are patient, you can get an M6 classic for $1000. the CV is very reasonable on the used market. same goes for the 40mm summicron.

one of the great offshoots of being a photojournalist is that i know how to use very small, simple flash units very well. a 2.5 or 2.8 (i use the biogon c)
is plenty fast enough for me
 
There have been many suggestions.
Mostly good!
I asked what subjects had the OP in mind?
Using Film cameras means processing.
At home or from some source?
Film can be "done " quickly.
Digital wasn't around when I did newspaper work..
Film though can be expensive, but cheaper than digital, as cameras cost way less..
It's not rocket science, get a simple rig.
M6TTL has meter, any M without, a 50mm Elmar, lens shade,filter.
Spend, use it, enjoy, show if you can..
 
why do you want a leica that bad, if you don't want the leitz glass that bad? Makes no sense to me🙂
well ok, it does not HAVE to make sense, true.

Let me go against most of the flow and say, it's not a holy grail.
It's cool of course to use a Leica, and all that, but there are better alternatives, ESPECIALLY if you are on a budget.
I prefer my bessa r3a against my M2.
BUT
since you are for so long craving for it-
i also say buy a leica (try to find a decent deal) and see- maybe you'll relax and sell it in a short while, maybe you will relax and keep it forever.

Leitz glass does not have to be unaffordably expensive. A collapsible summicron or an elmar,elmarit (well at least some versions) or an older LTM lens can be had for a price less than the camera body (any M camera body).
 
The M2 is a superb camera and it's finder covering 35, 50 and 90 mm lenses is one of the best in the M series range. Good Luck with your choice. David

I disagree here. The M2 though has a 90mm frameline, is USELESS for 90mm. I dont mean focusing accuracy, i really mean the VIEWfinder. Due to its small magnification, you need to compose in 1/10th of the available finder area, it's just stupid, kills the whole purpose of building a great finder.
M2 is for moderately wide shooting, composing with the 50mm lines is already pushing it for me.

Human eyes cannot "zoom in" in the middle.

Thats why i say bessa r3a is much, much better for 90mm.

M3 finder could be OK for 90mm (havent used it extensively) but then there's still the ease of loading a BEssa, the meter, the weight and the cost 🙂
 
I disagree here. The M2 though has a 90mm frameline, is USELESS for 90mm. I dont mean focusing accuracy, i really mean the VIEWfinder. Due to its small magnification, you need to compose in 1/10th of the available finder area, it's just stupid, kills the whole purpose of building a great finder.
M2 is for moderately wide shooting, composing with the 50mm lines is already pushing it for me.

Human eyes cannot "zoom in" in the middle.

Thats why i say bessa r3a is much, much better for 90mm.

M3 finder could be OK for 90mm (havent used it extensively) but then there's still the ease of loading a BEssa, the meter, the weight and the cost 🙂


... no the eyes cannot ... but the mind can, and does it all the time
 
I disagree here. The M2 though has a 90mm frameline, is USELESS for 90mm. I dont mean focusing accuracy, i really mean the VIEWfinder. Due to its small magnification, you need to compose in 1/10th of the available finder area, it's just stupid, kills the whole purpose of building a great finder.
M2 is for moderately wide shooting, composing with the 50mm lines is already pushing it for me.

---

Well, I find the 50mm frame to be just about perfect, 90mm good enough to be practical and the 135mm corner marks usable in a pinch on my M4 (basically M2 finder + 135mm frame). I have most trouble with the 35mm frame because it's hard for me to see it corner to corner with my glasses on. 😀

On the "does it have to be a Leica M" argument...

Let's put it this way. You've heard about a beautiful city of unimaginable riches – only a couple of days' travel over the hills to the west. These days it's no longer an adventure in the wilderness, you can basically just buy a ticket and go. But the ticket is kind of expensive and you have heard all sorts of rumors... Some say the city isn't worth going anymore. The people have grown vain and the beer has gone stale. Some say it's a plague-ridden hellhole. Some say it's pretty much the same as everywhere else.

It's hard to tell who has it right, or indeed, whether any of the storytellers have actually been to the fabled city in recent times. So, would you rather sit around listening to the endless tales of old men – or ride to the city and, for the very least, come back with some stories of your own?
 
Let's put it this way. You've heard about a beautiful city of unimaginable riches – only a couple of days' travel over the hills to the west. These days it's no longer an adventure in the wilderness, you can basically just buy a ticket and go. But the ticket is kind of expensive and you have heard all sorts of rumors... Some say the city isn't worth going anymore. The people have grown vain and the beer has gone stale. Some say it's a plague-ridden hellhole. Some say it's pretty much the same as everywhere else.

It's hard to tell who has it right, or indeed, whether any of the storytellers have actually been to the fabled city in recent times. So, would you rather sit around listening to the endless tales of old men – or ride to the city and, for the very least, come back with some stories of your own?

^^^^
THIS

For something with such emotional draw, there is nothing like your own experience, for better or worse.

A very large part of the Leica experience is the M body haptics and ergonomics, and other cameras simply do not have these things. The heft and curved feel of the camera in your hand, the muted click of the shutter, the velvety advance lever, you won't find another kind of camera like this.

I must admit to a perhaps irrational line of thought when it comes to film Ms and lenses. If I shoot with the M9, I am happy to use Leica, Zeiss or Voigtlander lenses, as the image it largely created by the Leica-chosen sensor and processor inside. The M9 images have a distinctive character which comes through every lens I put on it, which makes every image a 'Leica image'.

But if I shoot with the M7, the image is created by a third party - film - and I find myself wanting to use only Leica lenses to distinguish this as a 'Leica image'. But that is just me, others will feel differently. I obviously hold a fair attachment to the idea of the Leica experience and output.

On the other hand, the photographer Derek Woods has been shooting a superb 365 project using his M6 and primarily a Voigtlander 28mm f2 Ultron. Kodak Portra 400 is his film. Derek understands lighting, exposure and composition like crazy, if his work is anything to go by.

http://365daysofleica.tumblr.com/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dtwoods/
Warning: NSFW

Lots of people will tell you that Voigtlander and Zeiss do a superb job in comparison with Leica for lenses. Zeiss lenses, particularly the 21, 25, 28, and 50 f2 Planar are so close to Leica image quality that the mucho extra cash might not be justified for those on a limited budget. No shame in that. One forum post that stuck in my mind years ago was that 'Voigtlander lenses allow me to afford to shoot a M8'.

The Voigtlander 35/1.4 Nokton is supposedly based on the older 35mm Summilux, and I just love it. The Zeiss 28mm Biogon has virtually indistinguishable image quality from the Leica 28mm Elmarit I have, although the Leica is much smaller and has way better build tolerances.

If the emotional draw of a Leica lens on a Leica body is that strong, then just do it. Buying secondhand will allow you to sell with little or no loss at a later date, if you chose to. At least you'll have the experience and you can decide for yourself.
 
Value wise, I'd go with an M2/M4/M4-2, and maybe a 40mm summicron or m-rokkor. The size of the kit is amazing, and most likely can be purchased flat out for under $1000. You will have to, of course, adjust for the 40mm lens not being reflected in your viewfinder options, but in practice, it's not a huge detriment. Plus, you can fit your camera/lens and some film in a small bag.

As far as leaning towards Leica and rangefinders...I took a long time to buy my first M, an M3, and from then on was helplessly at the mercy of all the amazing bodies/lenses that were offered. I've since bought/sold/rebought a ton of lenses and bodies, and still have most of them.

At this point, having sifted through a ton of gear, my favorites have got to be an M6/MP + a 35mm f2 Summicron and/or a 50mm f1.4 Summilux. With either combination, I can almost always get something I like. I use these combinations constantly, and love the size compared to my Nikon D700/lenses. The M's and M glass are built beautifully, work smoothly, and first and foremost let me shoot the way I want to shoot film.
 
why do you want a leica that bad, if you don't want the leitz glass that bad? Makes no sense to me🙂
well ok, it does not HAVE to make sense, true.

The Leica M-body is unique in terms of rangefinder quality and handling.
Their lenses are not unique in terms of the quality that I can happily live with.

That last part is subjective, so I don't expect anyone else to share it. But it makes perfect sense to me 🙂
 
why do you want a leica that bad, if you don't want the leitz glass that bad? Makes no sense to me🙂
well ok, it does not HAVE to make sense, true.
Well, there are sooo many different and really gorgeous lenses in M39 or M-Mount. I think there's no other system with so many native (and high quality) lenses for it by so many different manufacturers (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtländer, Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Konica, Ricoh... just to name a few).

Great glass (no matter the brand) combined with this beautifully made camera that feels like a mechanical jewel yet is robust and utilitarian + so highly inspiring and fun to shoot. That's Leica for me.
 
For a reason I always wanted an M6. mainly because it's an "afordable" leica with metering. But a rangefinder is not a (D)SLR which i'm quite used to, so I bought a Canonet to see if i'd like rangefinders.

Then again the Canonet doesn't have interchangeable lenses like the M6 has. Also it didn't fell like the real rangefinder expierence I wanted. So achieve this expierentce I looked at former Soviet cameras and I went for a Kiev 4AM because many people like it.

The Kiev was still no M6 (or Contax II for that matter). A little later I found out that the M2 is not too bad either. One of the most iconic photos of the 20th was shot with an M2 as well (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrillero_Heroico) . So I went looking for the fun of it on eBay and made some offers. With some luck I was to lucky person so win the auction about €350. I needed a lens and bought a summicron f/2 for the same price. The leica was complety a different experience from the QL17 and Kiev 4AM. It felt a lot better and is very nice with focusing etc. Needless to say I got completely hooked on my M2.

For some reason I loved the leica so much I went looking for older ones and bought a Leica iiia with a Jupiter lense. Altough the Jupiter lens is excellent, the strength of an old leica is that it's compact when a collapsible lens is used. So now I'm looking for a collapsible lens for my Leica IIIa.

In the end I've could have bought an M6 with a cheap lens and enjoy the M6 experience. Now I'm still saving for the M6 and considering an M8 or M9 after that.

I'd recommend you buy the M4, use your phone for metering and use a Zeiss lens (they're pretty awesome too). But be aware that you will only be completely satisfied with a Leica M-MP and a lot of Leitz glass.
 
I would choose an everyday focal length, and then choose an appropriate body.

The viewfinder in the M3 is special. Matched with 50mm have always been my favorite Leica setup.

Since recently picking up the M2, I find a 35mm Summicron is a match made in heaven.

They got it right 50-60 years ago.

Rangefinder photography is akin to a religious conversion. It takes a lot of commitment. Some just will never get it. Those who do will be converts for life.

My 90mm Elmarit is happy on either M2/M3 body. A Sekonic fills a lot of rolls.

You wont go wrong with any choice of film body in the lineup.

The wide angle glass is less body/frameline critical than 35 to 90mm
 
Double stroke M3 (super quiet) or single stroke (button rewind) M2 if you shoot wide angle or have glasses, WITH 50mm f2 Summar (under rated), 3.5 Elmar (uncoated is also under rated) or best of the three, Summitar w/round aperture blades ….. LENSHOOD.
 
Very few people have recommended a hand-held meter. A Gossen/Sekonic/Calcu-light or other quality meter in good working condition will give you the chance to meter and adjust your camera before you need to hold it to your eye. Also, you can use incident metering with the correct accessory adaptor. Of course, Leicameters of various models are available, but they must be attached to the camera.
Personally, I prefer my Gossen Sixtino 2 for most travel photography and my Calcu-light XP for very low light.
The Gossen is very pocketable and it, plus similar meters are available cheaply on certain auction sites.
 
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