Topcon Automatic R III
- Thread starter yinyangbt
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grapejohnson
Well-known
It's-a very EXACT-a
grapejohnson
Well-known
I wish someone else would have actually replied to you in earnest, I feel like a turd for making a bad pun. One of the first cameras I ever used was a Topcon Auto 100, and the focusing screen wasn't very good, it was really hard to get a sharp in-focus image.
pablo18
Member
Hello, I know this is a very old thread but I'll try. I'm trying to compile a list of serial numbers for the Topcon RIII camera and so far I've only found 11. In many cases, the number isn't legible in the photograph because the camera has a light meter mounted on it. I wanted to ask if you could provide your camera's serial number so I can add it to the list, if it's not inconvenient for you, of course. Thank you.
Last edited:
David Murphy
Veteran
What a beauty! I've not owned one, but it appears to be an early Topcon model with the Exakta Bayonet mount which means there are tons of lenses for it, many of excellent quality. Hopefully your camera still works!
Mikut
Established
To add to your list I have a Topcon RIII Automatic with serial no. 312067.
pablo18
Member
Thank you very much for your contribution! And congratulations on owning this wonderful camera! In fact, I already had your serial number registered on my list, so I conclude that an image of the camera has already been uploaded online. So far, I have around 12 or 13 numbers registered (I still need to confirm some cameras I have at the technical service or that are arriving by mail), and at this time I can say that no more than 1,300 of these cameras were manufactured in total, some of which have "Topcon Automatic" written on them, and others sold in the United States are version 2 of the Beseler C. A warning: be very careful with one currently being offered for sale in Spain and listed on a very popular online trading site, as it has been heavily modified; it's a Frankencamera.
Mikut
Established
You are welcome Pablo. I'm in the USA. The camera came from Australia. It's in excellent condition and a welcome addition to my collection of early Topcon SLRs. I have seen the camera that you mentioned, I believe, listed on eBay. It has serious issues. Definitely a Frankencamera, as you say.
Scott
Scott
BenPhoto
Newbie
Hi Pablo, i have a Topcon with serial number: 311145 and i'm from Canada. The camera was a gift from an uncle who bought it in the 1970s.
pablo18
Member
Hi Ben, thank you so much for your message! I didn't have that serial number registered; with this one, I've reached about 18 serial numbers, and I can say with reasonable certainty that fewer than 1300 units were made. Yours is one of the earliest, number 145, I suppose it was made in late 1961. You have a very rare camera with extraordinary build quality, and you can mount on it a lot of those legendary lenses in Exakta mount. Yours also looks to be in excellent condition. Congratulations!
Maanen
Newbie
Hi Pablo, My Topcon RIII has serial number 311557. It was originally purchased in Rotterdam. I recently took it out for a spin again. The 35mm 2.8 is a bit prone to flaring, the 58mm 1.8 is very sharp.
Topcon RIII / 35mm 2.8 / Fomapan 200 / HC110 Dil. B / Yellow filter
Topcon RIII / 58mm F1.8 / Fomapan 200 / HC110 Dil. B / Yellow Filter
Topcon RIII / 35mm 2.8 / Fomapan 200 / HC110 Dil. B / Yellow filter
Topcon RIII / 58mm F1.8 / Fomapan 200 / HC110 Dil. B / Yellow Filter
pablo18
Member
Hello, thank you so much for your contribution, and congratulations on your excellent camera! It even has the very rare selenium meter! These photographs are truly beautiful, and the F.Auto-Topcor lenses have the same excellent optics as their more famous successors, the RE Auto-Topcor lenses. I'll be posting the list of all the serial numbers I've managed to gather in the next few days. I'm still waiting for two cameras I sent to the technician for a CLA, whose serial numbers I incredibly forgot to write down. One surprising thing about the RIII camera is that almost all the examples that appear are in excellent condition, undoubtedly due in part to its superb quality.
pablo18
Member
Hello everyone, as I mentioned before, I'm going to share a list of serial numbers for the Topcon RIII (or Beseler C version 2) camera that I've been able to find, as well as some serial numbers for other cameras and lenses in the R series. Perhaps it will be useful to someone. Of course, any additions or corrections are very welcome. It's unfortunate that over time, much information about various cameras fades away.
Starting with the RIII camera. The numbering begins at 311001. The numbers I was able to find or that were kindly reported by other forum participants are:
311028 (collection of Captain Jack)
311145 (reported by BenPhoto)
311287
311320
311440
311458
311487
311519
311557 (reported by Maanen)
311602
311651
311727
311851
311924
312019
312056 (Beseler C version 2 in collection of Captain Jack)
312067 (reported by Mikut) (Scott)
312168
312252
This appears to be a strong indication that fewer than 1300 units of the Topcon RIII were manufactured.
It's interesting that the Topcon RIII and the Topcon RS seem like sister cameras in a way. Their production, or at least their sales, overlapped for a brief period (late 1962 and/or early 1963). Both have a dedicated external exposure meter (a selenium meter in the case of the RIII, a CdS one for the RS). Both were produced in small numbers and for a short time. Previous to the RE Auto-Topcor lenses, they both appear to have shared the same lenses for a few months (H-F.Auto-Topcor or F.Auto-Topcor lense s; the matter is unclear at least to me). Both are of exceptional quality. And while the RIII represents the end of one era, the RS corresponds to the beginning of another. It must be said that the RS is currently much more sought after by collectors than the RIII, but this seems circumstantial to me.
Another rare and scarce camera, even more so than the Topcon RIII and RS, is the black Topcon R, which was manufactured for some Japanese security forces. Some serial numbers I've been able to find are:
156010 (with lens 285304)
156026 (with lens 285059)
156072
157008 (with lens 285846)
157070 (with lens 286077)
157073 (with lens 285776)
157082 (with lens 285339)
These few numbers would seem to suggest the existence of two sets or batches, one starting with serial number 156001 and the other starting with 157001, each containing about 100 units. But additional serial numbers would certainly be needed to determine this more precisely.
In the case of the Topcon R/Beseler B, the serial numbering starts at 150001. Around 12,000 units were manufactured, but there are other rare variants apart from the black one. A very few cameras, apparently sold in Europe, bear the name TOPCOR-R. The only one of these I've been able to see has serial number 161151 (reported in a Facebook group), which is also the highest serial number I've ever seen for a Topcon R. In addition, at the former Captain Jack site, a misspelled Besellr B copy with serial number 153443 is exhibited. And recently, a specimen that appears to have been a prototype or display piece has surfaced on eBay, in which the serial numbers for the body and lens are out of range. The body serial number does not begin with the expected 15XXXX (or 16XXXX) but is 131021. And the serial number for the standard Auto-Topcor 5.8cm 1.8 lens does not begin with the expected 28XXXX but is the palindrome 260062.
In the case of the Topcon RII (or Beseler C version 1) the numbering starts at 301001, and the highest number I saw was that of a copy for sale in Poland, 303683, which indicates that about 2700 units were manufactured.
The standard lens for the Topcon RII and RIII is the F.Auto-Topcor 5.8cm f/1.8. Its serial number starts at 620001, and the highest serial number observed is 623593, indicating that approximately 3,600 lenses were manufactured. However, the matter is not quite so simple. Near the end of the F.Auto-Topcor series, the H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses appeared, which seem to be completely identical to the F.Auto-Topcor lenses in every respect except for the presence of the letter H (although I and others did notice a slight difference in the coating's tone, but this should be analyzed more closely). The lowest serial number I've seen for one of these H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses is 623584, meaning it briefly overlaps with the F.Auto-Topcor numbering. The highest serial number I've seen for a black H-F.Auto-Topcor lens is 624366. It's said that the H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses were custom-made for Hitachi, but it's possible they were also used with the later Topcon RIII cameras. There's also a silver version of the H-F.Auto-Topcor lens, which could have been used with the Topcon RS. The lowest serial number I've seen for a silver H-F.Auto-Topcor lens is 623966, meaning there was some overlap between the black and silver H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses, which could be related to the period when the Topcon RIII and RS were manufactured or sold simultaneously. Obviously, this whole matter requires further investigation.
Other lenses of interest are the Autoquinon lenses made at the end of the Topcon R production, and the R.Topcor preset lenses, some of which are rare. It would be interesting to investigate the serial numbers of these lenses and also of the rare F.Auto-Topcor and/or H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses with focal lengths of 3.5cm, 10cm, and 13.5cm. Perhaps I can report on this matter in the future.
I would be grateful for any corrections or contributions anyone wishes to make.
A couple links:
『Topcon Rの調査(3)RIIとRIII』
TOPCON CLUB-Forcal Plane Shutter SLR 1 (R series)
Starting with the RIII camera. The numbering begins at 311001. The numbers I was able to find or that were kindly reported by other forum participants are:
311028 (collection of Captain Jack)
311145 (reported by BenPhoto)
311287
311320
311440
311458
311487
311519
311557 (reported by Maanen)
311602
311651
311727
311851
311924
312019
312056 (Beseler C version 2 in collection of Captain Jack)
312067 (reported by Mikut) (Scott)
312168
312252
This appears to be a strong indication that fewer than 1300 units of the Topcon RIII were manufactured.
It's interesting that the Topcon RIII and the Topcon RS seem like sister cameras in a way. Their production, or at least their sales, overlapped for a brief period (late 1962 and/or early 1963). Both have a dedicated external exposure meter (a selenium meter in the case of the RIII, a CdS one for the RS). Both were produced in small numbers and for a short time. Previous to the RE Auto-Topcor lenses, they both appear to have shared the same lenses for a few months (H-F.Auto-Topcor or F.Auto-Topcor lense s; the matter is unclear at least to me). Both are of exceptional quality. And while the RIII represents the end of one era, the RS corresponds to the beginning of another. It must be said that the RS is currently much more sought after by collectors than the RIII, but this seems circumstantial to me.
Another rare and scarce camera, even more so than the Topcon RIII and RS, is the black Topcon R, which was manufactured for some Japanese security forces. Some serial numbers I've been able to find are:
156010 (with lens 285304)
156026 (with lens 285059)
156072
157008 (with lens 285846)
157070 (with lens 286077)
157073 (with lens 285776)
157082 (with lens 285339)
These few numbers would seem to suggest the existence of two sets or batches, one starting with serial number 156001 and the other starting with 157001, each containing about 100 units. But additional serial numbers would certainly be needed to determine this more precisely.
In the case of the Topcon R/Beseler B, the serial numbering starts at 150001. Around 12,000 units were manufactured, but there are other rare variants apart from the black one. A very few cameras, apparently sold in Europe, bear the name TOPCOR-R. The only one of these I've been able to see has serial number 161151 (reported in a Facebook group), which is also the highest serial number I've ever seen for a Topcon R. In addition, at the former Captain Jack site, a misspelled Besellr B copy with serial number 153443 is exhibited. And recently, a specimen that appears to have been a prototype or display piece has surfaced on eBay, in which the serial numbers for the body and lens are out of range. The body serial number does not begin with the expected 15XXXX (or 16XXXX) but is 131021. And the serial number for the standard Auto-Topcor 5.8cm 1.8 lens does not begin with the expected 28XXXX but is the palindrome 260062.
In the case of the Topcon RII (or Beseler C version 1) the numbering starts at 301001, and the highest number I saw was that of a copy for sale in Poland, 303683, which indicates that about 2700 units were manufactured.
The standard lens for the Topcon RII and RIII is the F.Auto-Topcor 5.8cm f/1.8. Its serial number starts at 620001, and the highest serial number observed is 623593, indicating that approximately 3,600 lenses were manufactured. However, the matter is not quite so simple. Near the end of the F.Auto-Topcor series, the H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses appeared, which seem to be completely identical to the F.Auto-Topcor lenses in every respect except for the presence of the letter H (although I and others did notice a slight difference in the coating's tone, but this should be analyzed more closely). The lowest serial number I've seen for one of these H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses is 623584, meaning it briefly overlaps with the F.Auto-Topcor numbering. The highest serial number I've seen for a black H-F.Auto-Topcor lens is 624366. It's said that the H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses were custom-made for Hitachi, but it's possible they were also used with the later Topcon RIII cameras. There's also a silver version of the H-F.Auto-Topcor lens, which could have been used with the Topcon RS. The lowest serial number I've seen for a silver H-F.Auto-Topcor lens is 623966, meaning there was some overlap between the black and silver H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses, which could be related to the period when the Topcon RIII and RS were manufactured or sold simultaneously. Obviously, this whole matter requires further investigation.
Other lenses of interest are the Autoquinon lenses made at the end of the Topcon R production, and the R.Topcor preset lenses, some of which are rare. It would be interesting to investigate the serial numbers of these lenses and also of the rare F.Auto-Topcor and/or H-F.Auto-Topcor lenses with focal lengths of 3.5cm, 10cm, and 13.5cm. Perhaps I can report on this matter in the future.
I would be grateful for any corrections or contributions anyone wishes to make.
A couple links:
『Topcon Rの調査(3)RIIとRIII』
TOPCON CLUB-Forcal Plane Shutter SLR 1 (R series)
Paul the camera nut
Newbie
This is great information, thank you! You may have already spotted it, but I've just purchased 311074 on ebay. It comes with the clip on light meter and lens hood. I can't wait to get it. I already have the R and RII, so it will complete the trio.
pablo18
Member
Hi, thank you so much for the information! I'm honestly a bit jealous; if I had seen it, I would have bought it immediately! 😂😂 These cameras usually sell for surprisingly low prices, they often come in exceptional condition, and both the clip-on light meter and the original lens hood for the F.Auto-Topcor lens are really rare pieces. And that serial number is extremely low, only the 74th one made. Congratulations! It would be great if you could upload a photo when you receive it, maybe alongside your R and RII that complete that exceptional and underrated trio. I'll update the list then:
311028 (collection of Captain Jack)
311074 (reported by Paul the camera nut)
311145 (reported by BenPhoto)
311287
311320
311440
311458
311487
311519
311557 (reported by Maanen)
311602
311651
311727
311851
311924
312019
312056 (Beseler C version 2 in collection of Captain Jack)
312067 (reported by Mikut) (Scott)
312168
312252
Paul the camera nut
Newbie
Yes, I'll certainly post a piccy. I agree, these things are so undervalued. To me, the build seems to be better than, say, a Nikon F or F2. Apparently there is oil on the aperture blades of the RIII lens, but I'm hoping that I can remove the lens elements and free it up with some isopropyl alcohol without attempting to disassemble the whole thing.
Majik
Newbie
Hello, My R-3 is 311346
Regards
pablo18
Member
Thank you very much! And congratulations on owning such an excellent and rare piece of engineering. My own example is 311320, which is very close to yours.
Over the past few weeks, I have also collected a few more serial numbers, both for the RIII and for the R Black. I will take this opportunity to post the updated lists, now including your contribution.
With the latest numbers I have found, it now appears — contrary to my earlier assumption — that the Topcon R Black was produced in two closely spaced batches, the smaller consisting of around 100 units with serial range 1560XX, and the larger consisting of around 200 units with serial ranges 1569XX and 1570XX. This would suggest a total production of around 300 cameras, although it would be necessary to confirm that no standard silver-finish units were produced interspersed among them.
For the RIII:
311028 (collection of Captain Jack)
311074 (reported by Paul the camera nut)
311145 (reported by BenPhoto)
311287
311320
311346 (reported by Majik)
311440
311458
311487
311494
311519
311557 (reported by Maanen)
311602
311651
311727
311774
311851
311924
312019
312056 (Beseler C version 2 in collection of Captain Jack)
312067 (reported by Mikut) (Scott)
312168
312252
For the R Black:
156010 (with lens 285304)
156026 (with lens 285059)
156028 (with lens 285047)
156049
156072
156921
156949
157006
157008 (with lens 285846)
157070 (with lens 286077)
157073 (with lens 285776)
157082 (with lens 285339, collection of Captain Jack)
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