Upgrade to the M 10?

Rob-F said:
Thanks for that review!
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Handling the camera in a store in order to make excuses as to buying one or not is not even close to being a review.

I earn a great living with using my M240 among other cameras for work, I handled the M10 for about an hour and ordered one. For me it is a no brainer, two stops higher ISO range alone is worth it and besides it is not that much to upgrade, $3,500 is pretty easy to come by in my business.

You need to actually own and use the camera to create what the photo enthusiast forums seem to love to pass the time reading, gear reviews.
 
Nowhereman said:
This has been well documented by Marc Williams ("fotografz"), who has shown conclusively, as far as many people are concerned, that skin tones in M240 are off and to fix them makes other colors go out of whack; some other people feel that custom camera profiles can fix this. I don't think so and prefer the M9 color rendition.
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Use IR cut filters on the 240.
 
Agree with you, KM-25. Reading why someone was blown away by the M10 after handling it is a store might get my attention, but not a "review" by someone just handling it in a store.

I saw it in the Bangkok Leica Store while I was carrying my M3. Picking up the M10 and handling it made me think how it felt more like the M3 than my M9-P; how it had less of the feel of shooting with a computer than the M9 did — more direct feel of the shutter button, etc. But I didn't decide to buy it until I corresponded with a professional photographer, with whom I had a few years ago discussed both the color rendition of the M9 and the MM, knowing both his work and what he liked and disliked about these cameras.
_______________
Alone in Bangkok essay on BURN Magazine
 
My personal impression handling the M10 in the store was positive, the improvements to the optical viewfinder in particular, to my eyes, made the largest difference. But the M-D does what I want very well already, with a little better feel to me than the M10 due to the lack of buttons and LCD, so I'm sticking with it for the foreseeable future. I'd love the M10's viewfinder to be put into the M-D, however.

And note that I already have and use the SL. The M-D and the SL complement each other perfectly.

G
 
Huss said:
Couple of points. I can understand buying an M10 new if you don't already have an M240 because, for the same money, why not get the most recent one?
But calling that person a sucker? I dunno... You could buy a $6500 M240 for $3500 (something I did). Then later buy that $6500 M10 for $3500 when the M11 shows up and the masses make the leap again.
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I don't think the comparison you originally introduced was jumping a generation (like M9 past M240 to M10); it was more like the idea of buying a car for the mid-cycle refresh when you already have the first model year for that platform (M240-->M10). Actually, it's a lot more like that now that I think about it - since MCEs are often focus-group and not designer-driven, and cars are often decontented as the model cycle goes on (as apparently the M10 has).

Dante
 
tom.w.bn said:
When I hold my 240, then I already have a Leica M in my hand. I suppose you wanted to say "a film Leica M" ? For me the difference of the M10 and 240 in size is not relevant.
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I know it is hard for men, what with rampant mansplaining and all, but you "suppose" incorrectly.
 
Nowhereman said:
No, thanks — I'd rather get the M10, which is what I'm doing
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Go right ahead - it's good for the economy :) (and the kind of work I do).

I personally wouldn't mind the additional 2 stops and the larger viewfinder for 28mm. Then again, my 240 was a special gift and I like it plenty enough to stick with it. Size has never been an issue. Given that the 240 (and derivatives) has so far been the only digital Leica with no issues post-release, I'll wait a couple of years before considering the M10 as second digital M body :)
 
Huss said:
Now that got your attention.. today I checked one out for the first time at the Leica Store, and while I was there I also checked out the SL. I had my M240 along to compare, even though I of course could have used one of theirs.
So. I don't get why people w/ M240s are dumping them like they are dipped in urine and encrusted in ebola. Yeah the M10 is a little smaller, yeah it's view finder is a little bigger and yeah it has that iso dial.
But. It's a little smaller. Is it worth $3500 more for that? Not to me. It's view finder is a little bigger but I had to compare it side by side w/ the 240 to see the difference. You will not be able to see the 28mm frame lines with glasses on. Is that worth $3500? Not to me. The ISO dial/knob - on my M240 I push one button and turn one dial. It takes a second. On the M10 I have to carefully hold the knob, pull up till it releases, then turn. To me this is a wash. Worth $3500 more? Nope. I don't use video so that's neither here nor there. Smaller battery with shorter life? Worth $3500 more? Nope.
It does have a sensor that is, umm, more sensitive but I hardly ever shoot over 1600 ISO. I can see this being useful to some so that is an improvement. But most low light pics I've seen are those of people taking shots of some drunk at a bar to post on the web, or a no-name cover band at a no-name bar, to post on the web. The best low light pics I've seen, interestingly enough, have been taken on real film. Which is usually 1600 ISO or lower.
If I didn't have an M already, then I totally get why one would get the M10. It's the latest model. But I just don't get this mad panic rush to unload the M by current owners to get the M10. Unless it is just a need to have the latest thing. Your pictures will not be any better.
As for peeps in the used market, now is your time! Buy a mint M240 for $3k-$3.5K while you can before everyone else realizes that that is a fantastic price for a great camera.

Now the SL. Wow. I get that because the built in EVF, with the little joystick that allows you to moved the magnified focus point around the screen is just great. No need to focus and recompose like you would with an M, you hold the composition, focus where you want, take the shot. Awesome. Focus and recompose can cause the focus point to shift. Not with the SL. The way its built, the way it feels, the way it works as a tool, the SL rocks. I can see my pics improving w/ that camera as focus will not be missed using my M lenses wide open, you know if the exposure is correct before you take the pic, you know the exact composition before you take the pic.
The external optional EVF on the M10 is waaay lower spec than the SL. And is a clunky add on. The optional EVF on the M240 is kinda poopy but at least it is small, you still get to see the correct composition, and with a little effort can hit spot on focus. The biggest win for it is that you can buy the Olympus version for $100 mint/used.

Yeah for me, with an M240 already the M10 does not make much sense. The SL - there definitely is an argument for that.

I've read claims that the images from the M10 are much 'better' than that from the M240. Here's the thing, w/ digital photography you can pretty much make a digital file look however you want. Ashwin Rao posted a really nice review, with lots of great pics, on Stevehuff. But looking at those pics did not tell me anything that the camera did, but what he did in post process. Which was to add lots of vignette, crank on the contrast, and add the clarity slider. The result is something that masks what the native image is. But does that matter if the photographer is going to add a lot of post process? And if it doesn't matter, what is the point of trading in a camera that already can do that?

Anyway, that's my take! :D
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So people don't NEED the M10
Shocking discovery....
What's next? "It's not about camera, it's about photographer"?! That will take us far off the beaten path... this is about buying buying buying, what skin tones you are talking about?
 
nikonhswebmaster said:
I know it is hard for men, what with rampant mansplaining and all, but you "suppose" incorrectly.
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Then your sentence doesn't make any sense at all to me. Maybe just a foreign language thing. Btw. I didn't understand your sentence above either. "what with rampant mansplaining and all".... is this english?
 
KM-25 said:
Handling the camera in a store in order to make excuses as to buying one or not is not even close to being a review.

I earn a great living with using my M240 among other cameras for work, I handled the M10 for about an hour and ordered one. For me it is a no brainer, two stops higher ISO range alone is worth it and besides it is not that much to upgrade, $3,500 is pretty easy to come by in my business.

You need to actually own and use the camera to create what the photo enthusiast forums seem to love to pass the time reading, gear reviews.
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Yep,

While I might have toned down the "great living" part, your point is one that is often brought up in reference to the new MacBook Pro. "I could buy a Dell for half the price" they say, endlessly.

But the reality is that a MacBook Pro costs about two day's work. An M10 if it is financed, and depreciated properly, will hardly be noticed as an expense.

However if one buys a camera, one cannot afford as a hobby, then it could be a painful experience. Or it could be a lifesaver, it all depends on one's life?
 
There have been some interesting articles about how non-native speakers have developed an alternative English, which in many ways is more precise, but makes understanding native English speakers very difficult.

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20161028-native-english-speakers-are-the-worlds-worst-communicators

MIkhail, the native US idiom would be "don't put words in my mouth."

Huss said:
I specifically looked for the striking difference, and yes it definitely is thinner. But it made me realize that all the griping about the thickness of the M240 is unwarranted. And I'm guilty of having been one of those.
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I admit it's probably nuts on my part. I remember the first day one of my Leica rep friends showed me an M7. All I could say was, "it's so tall, why is it so tall?" :)

I later found out it was something like 2 millimeters taller.
 
nikonhswebmaster said:
There have been some interesting articles about how non-native speakers have developed an alternative English, which in many ways is more precise, but makes understanding native English speakers very difficult.
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Sorry, Fred, you cann't expect a non-native English speaker to understand "mansplaining" (yet), alternative English or not.
 
ferider said:
Sorry, Fred, you cann't expect a non-native English speaker to understand "mansplaining" (yet), alternative English or not.
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Of course I see your point, but...

"mansplaining" is pretty mainstream, first addressed years ago on SNL. http://snltranscripts.jt.org/78/78nwomen.phtml

And while it started out as primarily men "explaining" women's issues to women, turns out it might be a common male characteristic applied by many (men and women) more equally?

It comes down to IMO, is the not so subtle difference between "this is what I heard you say" and "this is what you said."
 
Huss said:
Post some pics you took with your M240, and some you took with your M10.
It will be interesting to see how they have progressed from one camera to the other.
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I don't have my M240 any longer as I traded it for an SL, otherwise I would be happy to.
But what I noticed right off the bat, is the amount of post processing that's required to bring the M240 photo's up to the M10 standard, which I prefer.
The SL and the M10 are very close in that respect. The new sensor is quite an improvement in certain areas.

The Monochrom M246's still king of black and white though.
 
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