Margu
Established
the question is if upgrading is an issue, then why the camera sales are down in almost every sector?
Upgrades: a potential obstacle
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Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
It seems what crowd jumped from film to digital P&S first, then from small digital cameras to DSLRs, now it is is back to fancy little ones, but in terms of digital IQ here is no reason to upgrade for last five years, or so, if you are OK with DSLRs.
People often believes they could get better picture if they get new camera.
Some of those will get it. But where are those who enjoying access to new technology even without reasonable results in photography itself.
I went this digital route in 2007 after realizing it was getting expensive to have film developed by local lab at Walmart. Family with kids, you know...
We left film Canon Rebel camera at the shelf and purchased outdated, discounted ($200) but advanced Fuji P&S. My wife and I realized how we could take as many pictures as we want.
We added Canon Rebel 500D later in 2009. To have more MP and video. To skip school picture day ripoffs.
I won serious international contest with this camera and some pictures were published by local media after adding 70_200L lens to it. In 2010 I realised the old Canon 5D is better in terms of IQ and matches better the lenses I like to use. I tested and owned dozen or so lenses and kept just five of them.
In 2011 I was looking at our re-scanned film pictures taken with film Rebel and I realized what I still like the film look.
As of now I went through numerous film cameras and formats. Learned how to develop b/w and color at home. In the process of learning the analog printing.
This and every new film, developer and RF lens I try is huge to me in terms of something new and different for result I could see and see the difference.
I'm keeping and using my Canon 500D and 5D with few L lenses because I see no significant difference between pictures I'm getting from not new DSLRS with good glass on it and pictures from users of latest and greatest cameras made by Fuji, Sony, Nikon, Canon and so on.
Lots of digital upgrades these days, but no big difference in results, IMHO.
People often believes they could get better picture if they get new camera.
Some of those will get it. But where are those who enjoying access to new technology even without reasonable results in photography itself.
I went this digital route in 2007 after realizing it was getting expensive to have film developed by local lab at Walmart. Family with kids, you know...
We left film Canon Rebel camera at the shelf and purchased outdated, discounted ($200) but advanced Fuji P&S. My wife and I realized how we could take as many pictures as we want.
We added Canon Rebel 500D later in 2009. To have more MP and video. To skip school picture day ripoffs.
I won serious international contest with this camera and some pictures were published by local media after adding 70_200L lens to it. In 2010 I realised the old Canon 5D is better in terms of IQ and matches better the lenses I like to use. I tested and owned dozen or so lenses and kept just five of them.
In 2011 I was looking at our re-scanned film pictures taken with film Rebel and I realized what I still like the film look.
As of now I went through numerous film cameras and formats. Learned how to develop b/w and color at home. In the process of learning the analog printing.
This and every new film, developer and RF lens I try is huge to me in terms of something new and different for result I could see and see the difference.
I'm keeping and using my Canon 500D and 5D with few L lenses because I see no significant difference between pictures I'm getting from not new DSLRS with good glass on it and pictures from users of latest and greatest cameras made by Fuji, Sony, Nikon, Canon and so on.
Lots of digital upgrades these days, but no big difference in results, IMHO.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Having walked through several generations of digital camera offerings and worked with them extensively, and still using one old, one new, and in "in the middle" camera, two big changes are apparent to me:
- Dynamic range of raw capture has vastly improved. :: It used to be that the professional grade DSLR sized sensor cameras were the only way to go to achieve a broad dynamic range. Now you can get such capability even with relatively modest size sensors and relatively low cost cameras. Additionally, vast improvements to image processing software (raw converter technology especially) has improved even the older equipment's performance enormously. Large DR capability makes exposure evaluation and image rendering vastly easier.
- Operational responsiveness has improved over and over again. :: another case where in the past only top-line pro cameras performed fluidly enough to become transparent to the user, and where now many cameras even in the low end consumer range are quite fast and flexible.
Improvements ... upgrades, if you will ... like these remove obstacles from our work, they don't introduce them. Whether the removal of such obstacles, the relaxing of constraints, is better suited to the development of better photographs/Art vs learning and developing our abilities within a fixed system of constraints is really the meat of this pseudo-philosophizing. Photography is such a manifold endeavor that only one answer applicable to all photographic endeavors is most unlikely.
G
dct
perpetual amateur
I see the problem triggered by good and personal marketing channels nowadays. But: It is up to me slowing down the upgrade cycle, especially for digital equipment.
Example: my pocket cameras
I will not buy a new one, as long as it works, as long I get replacement batteries and compatible memory cards. If it was an excellent choice a few years ago, why should it be bad today?
Example: my pocket cameras
- Rollei B35 (until the advance lever reset spring broke a 2nd time)
- Minolta Vectis 300 (until APS film was declining)
- Panasonic DMC-FX30 (until there were spots on the sensor)
- Canon PowerShot S100 (today)
I will not buy a new one, as long as it works, as long I get replacement batteries and compatible memory cards. If it was an excellent choice a few years ago, why should it be bad today?
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
jsrockit
Moderator
Consumers vs. Serious Users... if the consumer part of the equation disappears, numbers go down... there aren't enough diehard users.
Sejanus.Aelianus
Veteran
Indeed; a very astute observation.
However, is it not also the case that each new camera gave you something more than its predecessor?
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Hard to understand how this follow on statement relates to what I wrote. I said nothing about video ... ?
G
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Godfrey
somewhat colored
hepcat
Former PH, USN
I agree that there are as many answers as their are problems to solve. None of them are one-size-fits-all.
And I agree that improvements (upgrades) remove obstacles from work and work flow... provided that 1) they are actually recognizable improvements rather than advertising hype to generate sales, and 2) that they are relatively transparent to the user in work flow.
I have become weary of the hyped improvements that are done to sell cameras. I'm also wary of "new and improved." As we've seen over and over, sometimes the improvements that are touted as major once a little time has passed seem pretty minor depending, of course, on your perspective and needs.
I am also weary of "improvements" to a product that require the user to learn an entirely new software system or user interface from scratch. I buy this equipment to make images, not spend hours trying to sort through a myriad of options just to get the device to do a simple operation that used to be done with a dial.
Improvements in sensor technology and processing technology can be valuable. Much of the other stuff that is touted as "new and improved" needs some evaluation before it can be pronounced worth while. More complex is not always an improvement.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
OK. 😕 Was it about "significant" DR increase in P&S, in yours? As something to be considered and significant upgrade? 😱
How many Instagram users noticed this significance with their iPhones? 😉
Think about it not from gearhead point of view but as an artist.
You might realise then, the Instagram million or so users is where major upgrade in terms of photography happens. Adding few bits in DR and implementing few lousy in camera PP filters are not significant for many.
Who needs more MPs these days if 90% of the images are shared on the Internet?
🙂
Godfrey
somewhat colored
My post said nothing about P&S or whatever other types of cameras. It pointed out two things ... improved DR and improved camera responsiveness ... which were worthy technological advancements to motivate "upgrading."
Even Instagram users prefer to make photos with an iPhone 4S or 5 compared to earlier models because the newer iPhones have vastly improved cameras, never mind having vastly improved image processing performance.
I don't participate in the Instragram awareness. Why should I be concerned with what makes them happy, or not?
"Billions of ants will inherit the earth" ... do you want to be one of the billions of ants or do you want to be a human being?
"Why should we be concerned with more MPs if 90% of the images are shared on the internet?" Do you intend to 'share' all of your photos on the internet, or do you want to make beautiful photographic prints?
"Why should we be concerned with more MPs if 90% of the images are shared on the internet?" Do you intend to 'share' all of your photos on the internet, or do you want to make beautiful photographic prints?
Same arguments. I know who I want to be and what I want to do. 🙂
G
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Hi Roger,
It's our job as photographers and camera buyers to study new equipment, figure out what is dross and what is useful, and then take advantage of the useful. Whatever new learning is required to do that is part of our job. Ignoring marketing spin and scribble is part of our job. Understanding and setting appropriate expectations for the advances is yet another part of our job.
My new camera, the Oly E-M1, is an incredible device with a bazillion capabilities and a tremendous lot of customization possibilities. It takes study and experimentation to understand it and set it up. The reward in doing that it a fast, responsive, transparent camera that works better than its antecedents—which includes my M9 and prior, simpler cameras.
Of course, we can exploit older, simpler cameras to make satisfying photos too. The question here is when to stop wanting improvements, in whichever vector of improvement is offered. That's a personal evaluation that only individual photographers can answer in the context of who they are and what they want to do.
Note that I'm not letting go of my old camera, my middle camera, or my new camera any time soon. And, as I said before, I know who I am and what I want to do. What remains open is what I'll become, and what improvements in the technology I use will prove advantageous to that. ;-)
G
Pioneer
Veteran
I still firmly believe that photography is about communication. I also believe that this is the reason behind the huge leap in popularity of smart phones with built in cameras. It enhances the communication. Westin is right. We have become ensnared in the technology and have forgotten that ulitimate quality was never the goal but for a very small group of us. Just as Leica and 35mm caught the industry unawares, and leaped ahead in the 20s and 30s. Not because the image quality was best, but because it was good enough to communicate to others with. Likewise the cellphone camera. Not just because the image is good enough, but the communication technology has also matured enough.
Photography may become art in the right hands, but for most it is about communication. And that is good.
Photography may become art in the right hands, but for most it is about communication. And that is good.
philipus
ʎɐpɹəʇɥƃı&
Now, that is some of the funniest I've seen today. Spot on.
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