It's true... I'm past 50 in Leica mount...
Voigtländer 2/50 APO-M mount! PREORDER $999
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It's true... I'm past 50 in Leica mount...
raid
Dad Photographer
You can never own too many 50mm lenses. I don’t have 50!50mm lenses, but I may have 30 or so.
james.liam
Well-known
¡Ay caramba! How do you keep the fungus off them in Florida?
raid
Dad Photographer
I use a closet in which I place a large canister of silicates to absorb any humidity. I find no fungus since over thirty years. The home is always air conditioned.
cboy
Well-known
Chromatic Aberration should be measured as focus shift across the spectrum from the primary point of focus. Measured at the out-of-focus areas on a blown out Digital image is meaningless, except to decide if you like a lens or not.
APO lenses are best used on a Monochrome Camera or Black and White film. This is where using Color Filters has a big impact on focus.
Pentax 85/4.5 Ultra-Achromatic lens on the M Monochrom, UV and Red filters.
Pentax 50/1.4 Syper-Takumar, converted to M-Mount and RF coupled, on the M Monochrom.
Yellow filter:
Red filter.
Color pencils representing the Spectrum. Roy G Biv. Similar "debate" on LUF 5 years ago- I took these images.
Full res images here:
https://ibb.co/album/tmmWP1
What's the point? Chromatic Aberration causes focus shift similar to Spherical Aberration. On a color camera, some can be eliminated in Post. On a Monochrom camera, it must be eliminated Optically. Most lenses shift towards infinity with deep color filters.
So- this was a 15 minute test of the 50/1.4 Pentax that runs ~$50 and the Pentax 85/4.5 that today cost about the same as the Leica APO-Summicron.
Sidenote: Purple Fringing on a Digital Camera- some can be attributed to IR contamination. I use IR cutfilters on my faster lenses with the M9 to greatly reduce purple fringe.
Thankyou Sonnar Brian for your always informative and insightful posts.
Thankyou, CBoy- I appreciate that.
When the APO-Lanthar arrives, I'll do a similar test. I can use the same filters, the Pentax lenses and Lanthar all take 49mm filters! I'm set.
I had a "Random thought"- the APO Summicron was introduced with the original M Monochrom, which used a CCD. CCDs do better than CMOS with light coming in at steep angles. All newer cameras, including Leica, now use CMOS. The APO-Lanthar has a longer optical path, side-effect: it is a bigger lens. I wonder how much of optimizing the new lens for CMOS sensors went into the design, and how much the original APO-Summicron relied on a CCD being used.
When the APO-Lanthar arrives, I'll do a similar test. I can use the same filters, the Pentax lenses and Lanthar all take 49mm filters! I'm set.
I had a "Random thought"- the APO Summicron was introduced with the original M Monochrom, which used a CCD. CCDs do better than CMOS with light coming in at steep angles. All newer cameras, including Leica, now use CMOS. The APO-Lanthar has a longer optical path, side-effect: it is a bigger lens. I wonder how much of optimizing the new lens for CMOS sensors went into the design, and how much the original APO-Summicron relied on a CCD being used.
james.liam
Well-known
Since any of these makers plan long ahead of time, the M240 was likeliy finalized by the time the 50 APO and M9M appeared. Given its resolution, the design was for future high res cameras in mind and at the tine, the M9M was best able to showcase it. Not unlike the M10M.
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Many thanks to those who responded to my APO question. Very useful. All considered I'll give this lens a pass. Cheers, OtL
robert blu
quiet photographer
Chromatic Aberration should be measured as focus shift across the spectrum from the primary point of focus. Measured at the out-of-focus areas on a blown out Digital image is meaningless, except to decide if you like a lens or not.
APO lenses are best used on a Monochrome Camera or Black and White film. This is where using Color Filters has a big impact on focus.
Pentax 85/4.5 Ultra-Achromatic lens on the M Monochrom, UV and Red filters.
Pentax 50/1.4 Syper-Takumar, converted to M-Mount and RF coupled, on the M Monochrom.
Yellow filter:
Red filter.
Color pencils representing the Spectrum. Roy G Biv. Similar "debate" on LUF 5 years ago- I took these images.
Full res images here:
https://ibb.co/album/tmmWP1
What's the point? Chromatic Aberration causes focus shift similar to Spherical Aberration. On a color camera, some can be eliminated in Post. On a Monochrom camera, it must be eliminated Optically. Most lenses shift towards infinity with deep color filters.
So- this was a 15 minute test of the 50/1.4 Pentax that runs ~$50 and the Pentax 85/4.5 that today cost about the same as the Leica APO-Summicron.
Sidenote: Purple Fringing on a Digital Camera- some can be attributed to IR contamination. I use IR cutfilters on my faster lenses with the M9 to greatly reduce purple fringe.
Thanks for the good explanation and the clear examples.
Personally I'm not much interested in the technical details of our gear but it is always good to learn something new. Thanks again.
nickthetasmaniac
Veteran
The 90mm APO is an f3.5, not f2.5. It’s also a 20 year old lens and only came in LTM.
Not knocking the lens (I’ve heard it’s great), but not quite the same as a new, m mount ~f2.5ish 90mm. This remains a segment of the M ecosystem without a lot of options, especially if you won’t/can’t pay for a Leica.
The story on the APO goes back before digital. It's one of those lenses that the optical engineers designed, wanted to show-off their talent, but production cost kept it from being manufactured. It came out with the M Monochrom, but was likely designed long before. When it first was announced, some of these stories made their way to the Internet. It would be interesting if you put the M246 in front of the optical engineer and asked him of they wanted to "Tweek" the formula for it. Same with the M10M.
Cameras like the Q and Q2- the lenses are designed to match the sensor and firmware.
A review of the APO-Summicron 50/2 by Ming Thein from 2012:
https://blog.mingthein.com/2012/05/25/leica-50-2-apo-asph/
with some comments on the Bokeh showing " spherochromatism (bokeh fringing)", his words. Again- CA is measured at the plane of focus, not the out-of-focus regions.
I found the article talking about the APO-Summicron 50/2 being conceived 16 years before introduction.
https://www.leica-camera.blog/2012/06/04/peter-karbe-the-leica-apo-summicron-m-50-mm-f2-asph/
From the aricle: Peter (Karbe) continues, “The APO-Summicron 2.0/50mm aspherical is a lens originally conceived sixteen years ago. With the APO-Summicron 2.0/50mm ASPH Leica has made apochromatic corrections, as the name suggests by using special glasses, glasses with partial dispersion, to improve the colour unity in the picture element. The lens will of course only reach peak performance in conjunction with the M9 Monochrom because it has the resolution and the entire imaging chain is so lossless that it’s only then that the performance of the lens comes across.”
https://www.leica-camera.blog/2012/06/04/peter-karbe-the-leica-apo-summicron-m-50-mm-f2-asph/
From the aricle: Peter (Karbe) continues, “The APO-Summicron 2.0/50mm aspherical is a lens originally conceived sixteen years ago. With the APO-Summicron 2.0/50mm ASPH Leica has made apochromatic corrections, as the name suggests by using special glasses, glasses with partial dispersion, to improve the colour unity in the picture element. The lens will of course only reach peak performance in conjunction with the M9 Monochrom because it has the resolution and the entire imaging chain is so lossless that it’s only then that the performance of the lens comes across.”
james.liam
Well-known
I typed in 2.5 in error. Yes, it is an older design but a damned good one. An f/2-2.5 would be great but is there a large enough audience for it. It's one focal length completely ignored by Cosina, excepting the SL 3,5/90 APO (a wonderful lens, BTW).
nzeeman
Well-known
sorry to disagree brian... but ca are also considered in oof objects. its not a plane of focus that you look - its where rays fall on film/sensor. you optimize lens so whole spectrum is focused on same plane. bokeh fringing is longitudinal aberration and that purple in contrast regions is lateral aberration.
This lens has floating elements, and correction elements. Without having the precise prescription of the lens and putting it into a program that does optical modeling, hard to know exactly what it will do. Any amount of CA in the plane of focus will blur the image that cannot be corrected on a monochrome camera. An interesting test would be to use different color filters with a color test target, like color streamers running perpendicular to the camera.
I do believe that the APO-Summicron is best matched to the CCD based M Monochrom. Peter Karbe said so. He basically stated it can only reach peak performance with the M9 Monochrome of 2012. CCD sensors have a different geometry to collect light, and the offset microlens array is part of the optical path. It's different from the M240 and cameras that followed.
I do believe that the APO-Summicron is best matched to the CCD based M Monochrom. Peter Karbe said so. He basically stated it can only reach peak performance with the M9 Monochrome of 2012. CCD sensors have a different geometry to collect light, and the offset microlens array is part of the optical path. It's different from the M240 and cameras that followed.
nzeeman
Well-known
but one thing brian- i really love this discussion... can we open a thread for this? it would be better for future use to have all info about aberration in dedicated thread. also we can share info about lenses that are not labelled apo but have minimal ca. i think it can be both fun and useful and also wont destroy voigtlander topic...
That is a good idea- when I get my APO-Lanthar in, I plan on testing it with the M Monochrom and M9. I'll try to come up with some tests, better than Nikki's color pencils. I have the Pentax 85/4.5 Ultra-Achromat and I have APO lenses in Nikon mount, high-quality F-Mount to M-Mount adapter. I'll open a thread on that.
raid
Dad Photographer
It will be a very interesting thread. When was the Pentax 85mm lens sold?
The Pentax lens is from 50 years ago. It still gets a high price- one on Ebay sold for $4800 about 2 years ago. It uses Calcium Fluorite.
I think it was around $1400 when new- 50 years ago.
Another reason why it is just amazing that Cosina can bring this new lens out at $999. Maybe I should run reflective tape down my fencepost to do the CA test.
I think it was around $1400 when new- 50 years ago.
Another reason why it is just amazing that Cosina can bring this new lens out at $999. Maybe I should run reflective tape down my fencepost to do the CA test.
raid
Dad Photographer
I prefer CV over the "Made in China" lenses as I know the address or contact number of CV if there are QC issues, say. The $999 is solid. We will not find the same lenses for sale in some other country for $2000 suddenly. The Summicron V1 replica is a wonderful lens, but a CV lens for same cost would be more reliable.
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