Watch Repair

[GMOG]

Thanks for the advice on the Incabloc springs, it helped a lot! I successfully opened them and removed the jewel holders from the balance cock and the mainplate last night. I ended up having to remove the balance from the movement anyway, in order to get to the pallet fork and pallet bridge.

You bet! Glad it helped.

Yes, you have to remove the balance wheel from the movement to get to the pallets and bridge. When removing the balance don't detach the hairspring stud from the balance cock. Use the cock to lift the balance out of the way and also when returning it to position. The hairspring will stretch out and leave the wheel hanging down some but it won't do any harm so long as you don't force it enough to actually bend it.

Maybe you already understood, so apologies if I am repeating something you already know. The idea is to touch those delicate parts as little as possible. Separating the hairspring from the cock is one of the more risky things we do, so if we don't have to do it we don't.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

You bet! Glad it helped.

Yes, you have to remove the balance wheel from the movement to get to the pallets and bridge. When removing the balance don't detach the hairspring stud from the balance cock. Use the cock to lift the balance out of the way and also when returning it to position. The hairspring will stretch out and leave the wheel hanging down some but it won't do any harm so long as you don't force it enough to actually bend it.

Maybe you already understood, so apologies if I am repeating something you already know. The idea is to touch those delicate parts as little as possible. Separating the hairspring from the cock is one of the more risky things we do, so if we don't have to do it we don't.

Yeah, I knew not to take the hairspring off the balance cock. On my grandpa's old watch, removing it would have been exceptionally hard; I think the stud is held to the cock by a rivet, and the hairspring is held in the stud by a tiny pin that looks like it would be damn near impossible to get back in; so I left it attached. The wristwatch I'm working on now has a modern hairspring stud that snaps into the arm on the balance cock, so it would be less daunting to remove and reattach, but still looks hard to do without screwing it up...so I will leave it attached, too.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I can't finish work on the Andre Bouchard wristwatch till the new mainspring I ordered for it arrives; and the post offices tracking says it won't be here till Monday. The mainspring I bought for the Elgin goldtone pocket watch arrived yesterday, so I began working on it. I completely disassembled it last night. Later today, I'll clean the parts then start reassembling it.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Sad News. I began reassembling the Elgin pocket watch last night. When I had the escapement fully assembled, I wound it to see if it worked right. It didn't; the balance wheel wouldn't start.

The wheel moved freely if I nudged it, but did not make the pallet fork move. I had already tested the train gears and escape wheel to make sure they spun freely when I installed them, and it has a new mainspring so there should have been power for the movement to run. I racked my brain trying to figure out what I might have done wrong or what might be broken and suddenly wondered if the impulse jewel under the balance was broken, missing, or not contacting the pallet fork. I removed the balance and turned it over; there was no impulse jewel!

I'm looking for a new balance assembly for it; I don't want to try to install a new impulse jewel as this stage in my learning. If I can't find one, I'll set it aside along with the Waltham that needs a Center Wheel Jewel and repair if I find one later. I learned a lot about assembling and lubricating Incabloc jewels, and the watch itself was easy to work on; everything is big and fits together a lot easier than the parts on a small wristwatch do. It was a fun project.

I'm still waiting for the mainspring and crystal that I bought for the Andre Bouchard wristwatch to arrive; once they get here, I can finish that one. I know it will work because it worked before I took it apart; it was just sluggish because it needed cleaned. The Elgin and the Waltham pocket watches were both totally non-functional before I opened them up.

 

[chuckroast]

@Chriscrawfordphoto It occurs to me, with these kind of madd skillz, you might launch a fairly profitable business doing CLAs on mechanical cameras and shutters. Either that, or teach Sneaky to do it ...

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

@Chriscrawfordphoto It occurs to me, with these kind of madd skillz, you might launch a fairly profitable business doing CLAs on mechanical cameras and shutters. Either that, or teach Sneaky to do it ...

I've tried repairing cameras and they're too complex and require expensive specialized equipment to do it right to make sure everything is precisely aligned so focus will be accurate and shutters accurate. I'm not interested in that at all. Every camera I have tried to repair I have f--ked up badly. Watches are much simpler and easier.

 

[wlewisiii]

Honestly, I think I'd find it the other way around personally, but as Harry Callahan said, A man's gotta know his limitations. 😉

 

[chuckroast]

I've tried repairing cameras and they're too complex and require expensive specialized equipment to do it right to make sure everything is precisely aligned so focus will be accurate and shutters accurate. I'm not interested in that at all. Every camera I have tried to repair I have f--ked up badly. Watches are much simpler and easier.

I generally find leaf shutters of the view camera sort to be fairly straightforward, though I don't remotely have the skills to do anything very serious.

 

[raydm6]

Don't want to hi-jack Chris' thread, but do any of you guys remember the Westclox Scotty Pocket Watch? We used to see these at the local general stores for very little money. They may have been displayed in cut-outs in a cardboard display placard. I still have mine from the 70's and just wound it and it still runs (can hear the ticking). I believe it is Style 3.

Westclox Scotty Pocket Watch Style Series

The Scotty is a pocket watch that was introduced right after world War II and made until the 1990s.

clockhistory.com

Westclox - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Don't want to hi-jack Chris' thread, but do any of you guys remember the Westclox Scotty Pocket Watch? We used to see these at the local general stores for very little money. They may have been displayed in cut-outs in a cardboard display placard. I still have mine from the 70's and just wound it and it still runs (can hear the ticking). I believe it is Style 3.

View attachment 4866695

View attachment 4866696

Westclox Scotty Pocket Watch Style Series

The Scotty is a pocket watch that was introduced right after world War II and made until the 1990s.

clockhistory.com

Westclox - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's what they used to call a "Dollar Watch." Cheap American-made pocket watches with simple movements. Westclox was known for making a huge variety of them. I have one Westclox dollar watch called a "Bulls-Eye," which was another common model name; and I have another Westclox that has no model name. Both of mine still run, but are very slow, losing several minutes a day. They tick so loud you can hear them across the rooom! I don't think they can be opened; they weren't designed to be serviced.

Westclox also made some wristwatches. I have one my dad bought in 1968 at an air force base's store right after he got out of basic training (He was an airplane fueler in the Air National Guard for 24 years). I'm going to service it soon; it runs but is sluggish. Surprisingly, it has a Seiko movement! He still had the original box and receipt. The box said the retail price was $21; the receipt says the store on base sold it to him for $14.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I recently found out that there used to be a watch brand called Crawford! That's my last name, so of course I had to buy one. This one was made in the 60s and has an AS 1187 movement. It looks a lot better in real life; the light has really exaggerated the blemishes in the finish on it in the photo.

I'm going to have to service it; it runs but the amplitude is low and its losing about ten minutes a day!

Interestingly, the movement has "Grewaco" engraved on the train bridge. There seem to be a lot of obscure Swiss made American based brands that made near identical watches in the 60s. The "Andre Bouchard" watch that Maurice gave me, which was a store brand from a now-defunct department store chain called E.J. Korvette's, has an identical (but gold-toned) case and also uses an AS 1187 movement.



Interestingly, that watch's movement is engraved "Hydepark Watch Company." I've seen several other identical watches (all have different dials, but identical cases and the AS 1187 movement) with different brand names on the dials on eBay. Must have all been products of the same company.

In any case, as a proud card-carrying Crawford, I had to have a Crawford watch for my collection. I'm going to service this, get a new crystal for it, and a strap; then I'll wear it!

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Good news on the Elgin pocket watch! I got it working! It wasn't the roller jewel after all. I looked at it again today, this time through a strong loupe; and I found that there is a roller jewel! It is colorless, unlike most watch jewels, and hard to see; I missed it when I looked under the balance wheel before because I wasn't using enough magnification, and the fact that it was colorless.

Well if it isn't missing parts, what the Hell was causing it to not run?? I looked at it closely and noticed that when it had no power in the mainspring (watch not wound), the pallet fork's arm was not centered between the banking pins; it was hard against one of them. That means a big beat error. I wondered is a really big beat error could make a watch not run? I moved the hairspring stud until the pallet fork arm was as close to centered as I could get it, then wound the watch. It immediately began to run! Put it on the timegrapher and its running at -19 seconds per day with a 0.3ms beat error! That is great; the -19 s/d rate is easy to adjust out. Later tonight, I will finish assembling the watch. I need to add the keyless works and motion works, then the dial and hands and I'll be done!

YAY!

I'm waiting for the mainsprings I ordered for the Andre Bouchard and Crawford watches to arrive; I should be able to finish assembling the Andre Bouchard at the end of the week, then I'll start on the Crawford.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

The mainspring I ordered for the Andre Bouchard watch came last week and was the wrong size; the seller sent the wrong one so I had to wait for replacement, which finally came yesterday. Last night, I finished assembling the movement and it is working beautifully! I'm still waiting for a new crystal, which the post office is supposed to be bringing me today. This is the watch that had the milky acrylic crystal. Tonight, I will put the dial and hands on it and replace the crystal, then case the movement and It'll be done! I need to buy a strap for it, too, but I have to wait on that till I make some more money; I've spent too much on watch stuff lately 😀

Here's the video of me reassembling the movement:




I'm still waiting for parts I need to finish the Elgin pocket watch; they should be here by Monday. This weekend, I am going to start work on servicing the Crawford watch. It'll be easy; it has the same movement as the Andre Bouchard.

 

[GMOG]

Chris, It's not always necessary to replace the mainsprings, especially in newer watches that have the modern alloy type. You'll notice that the newer style springs take an "S" shape when out of the barrel, while older blue springs are a simple coil. The new alloy is white/silver. If the flat surfaces are not scratched up then you can use the spring again. Just clean it and put it back into the barrel after the barrel and arbor are cleaned.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Chris, It's not always necessary to replace the mainsprings, especially in newer watches that have the modern alloy type. You'll notice that the newer style springs take an "S" shape when out of the barrel, while older blue springs are a simple coil. The new alloy is white/silver. If the flat surfaces are not scratched up then you can use the spring again. Just clean it and put it back into the barrel after the barrel and arbor are cleaned.

This watch I'm working on now definitely needed a mainspring; the one had had taken a set and was a tight spiral, not an s-shape. I don't have a mainspring winder and good ones are very expensive; and I have very little money now. Its cheaper to spend the small amount the springs cost.

 

[GMOG]

This watch I'm working on now definitely needed a mainspring; the one had had taken a set and was a tight spiral, not an s-shape. I don't have a mainspring winder and good ones are very expensive; and I have very little money now. Its cheaper to spend the small amount the springs cost.

Watch Mainspring Winder Set Brass Wrist Watch Repairing Kit Watchmaker Tool Kits | eBay

Watch winder repair tools are perfect for watchmakers. Easy to Use: Watch mainspring winder, a handy tool for watch maintainers, jewelers or amateurs. High End Material: Watch mainspring winder set made of brass for maximum durability.

www.ebay.com

Pardon Our Interruption...

Those kits show the winders by watch caliber, which is a bit silly because what fits and works does so regardless of caliber.

In a pinch you can install them by hand. No single kit does them all. I have several types and sizes and still I have to do some by hand.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Watch Mainspring Winder Set Brass Wrist Watch Repairing Kit Watchmaker Tool Kits | eBay

Watch winder repair tools are perfect for watchmakers. Easy to Use: Watch mainspring winder, a handy tool for watch maintainers, jewelers or amateurs. High End Material: Watch mainspring winder set made of brass for maximum durability.

www.ebay.com

Pardon Our Interruption...

Those kits show the winders by watch caliber, which is a bit silly because what fits and works does so regardless of caliber.

In a pinch you can install them by hand. No single kit does them all. I have several types and sizes and still I have to do some by hand.

Do you have a set of those Chinese winders? I've wondered if they were any good; I've seen few people talk about them.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I just finished overhauling this 1960s wristwatch, which is one of the watches that a friend sent me a couple weeks ago to practice on and add to my collection. I disassembled the movement, cleaned the parts, reassembled and relubricated it, and adjusted it for timekeeping accuracy. I also replaced the cloudy old crystal with a new one, and I repaired the watch's case. One of the strap lugs was bent, and I returned it to the proper shape.

When I got it, it was running really slow, losing about 5 minutes a day. Now, after servicing, it gains 1 second per day, which is phenomenal for a 60+ year old mechanical watch. Just need to get a strap for it, and I can wear it. Check out the before and after photos!

 

[GMOG]

Do you have a set of those Chinese winders? I've wondered if they were any good; I've seen few people talk about them.

No, I don't. I have a set of Bergeon winders those are a copy of. They are simple machined things, hard to imagine making them so poorly that they wouldn't work. Even Swiss made tools sometimes require clean up and prep.

As you continue your watch adventures you may end up with multiple options for mainspring winding.

 

[GMOG]

Here's what I have for mainspring winders. The Watch-Craft sets do a lot. The Bergeon set handles others. If I can't get the job done with these I then resort to installing by hand. Pocket watch mainsprings go right into the barrel. Wrist watch mainsprings are more easily hand wound into the rings that new mainsprings come in (I save them), and then pressed into the barrels.

Some of the Bergeon winder slots have been modified so as to not bend the spring as it's being wound into the tool.