Welta Perle 6x9 105mm f6.3 filter thread

[seany65]

Yes, I know this is in the wrong place, but I can't see any thread for scale-focus medium format folders, so I'll have to put it here and hope a mod shoves it where it should be.

If I use a separate rangefinder thingy, that makes it alright for this thread, yes?

Anyway, I've just bought this Welta Perle 6x9 with 105mm f6.3 Weltar anastigmat in 'Original Gauthier vario' shutter, and I think I can see a thread on the front of the lens and I was wondering if anyone knows if this is a filter thread and if so what size is it? I'd at least like to get a lens hood for it.

Here's the pic:

(Click on the thumbnail)



Any help would be much appreciated.


PS. Why the ruddy-blime and blinking-flip do we say 'a (named) lens is in a (named) shutter', when actually, it's the shutter that's in the lens?

PPS. How close to f5.6 is f6.3? Is it like f5.6 and 1/3, or f5.6 and 1/2?

 

[oftheherd]

They may have had threaded filter threads, but I would have thought it more likely they used a Series filter holder. They came with both treaded and push on Series holders. Series 6 maybe?

 

[Dwig]

I expect that what threads you may see are those for the retaining ring for the front element and were not ever intended for attaching accessories.

Filters were almost certainly the slip-on kind and it is quite likely that none were ever made specifically for this camera/lens combo. It was likely that one purchased a slip-on series filter holder, probably Series VI, from a 3rd party manufacturer (e.g. Tiffen, Kodak, ...) and series sized filters.

 

[seany65]

Thanks for the replies.

You're probably both right, the thread may be for a retaining ring so that the lenses can be assembled.

What size in mm is 'series 6'? As far as I can tell any push-on filter should be about 24mm.

The lens is in two parts, one part unscrews off the front of the camera and the other unscrews from the inside of the camera. Both are slightly convex on the outside surface (that facing the user) and slightly concave on the inside. The concave sides being a little more pronounced than the convex sides. I presume this would probably be just a doublet rather than anything posher?

Incidentally, does either of you know if I should press the 'opening' button when I close the camera, or how exactly I shoul close it? Should I just push the big flap or push on the struts?

Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[oftheherd]

Normally these types of cameras closed by pushing the struts. On this one, I would say just behind where the struts attach to the drop bed, or maybe about half way up from there. The only reason I can think of to push on the opening button is if the tang is out of alignment and has to be pushed back into alignment to let the tang seat in the hole in the bed.

 

[oftheherd]

I expect that what threads you may see are those for the retaining ring for the front element and were not ever intended for attaching accessories.

Filters were almost certainly the slip-on kind and it is quite likely that none were ever made specifically for this camera/lens combo. It was likely that one purchased a slip-on series filter holder, probably Series VI, from a 3rd party manufacturer (e.g. Tiffen, Kodak, ...) and series sized filters.

I think it is correct that it likely took a series VI (6). My Mamiya Six takes that size filter/filter holder.

 

[Dwig]

...

What size in mm is 'series 6'? As far as I can tell any push-on filter should be about 24mm.
...

Series filters were sized in inches, not metric. The Series VI filters are roughly 41.3mm in diameter and are unthreaded disks. They almost always have a metal band around the outside to protect the edges.

Series VI filter holders were available in screw-in and slip-on styles and were likely available in sizes from around ~20-30mm to around ~40-42mm. Smaller lenses were usually fitted with Series IV or Series V holders and step-up rings were made.

Wikipedia has some info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_filter#Series_filters

 

[seany65]

Thanks for the further replies.

@oftheherd: I'll remember to push on struts. I don't actially need to press the 'open' button, I just wondered if I'm supposed to.

@Dwig: Thanks for the link. Though I am now a little confused. Why were series 6 filter holders available from 20-30mm to 40-42mm if series IV, 4.5, V and 5.5 were available for lenses of 20-35.9mm?

It'll certainly make looking for a lens hood and uv filter harder to find if I just look for 'Series VI' fit.

 

[Dwig]

...
@Dwig: Thanks for the link. Though I am now a little confused. Why were series 6 filter holders available from 20-30mm to 40-42mm if series IV, 4.5, V and 5.5 were available for lenses of 20-35.9mm?...

The size range was my guess based on past experience (decades of using and selling the things). There are a number of manufacturers and they were commonly available for nearly a half century, hence there is no way to get a exact list of the available sizes. The sizes available from different manufacturers varied both between manufacturers and over time.

There were also camera/lens manufacturers that offered special series filter holders, frequently incorporated into lens hoods, for specific lenses or with custom thread combinations (e.g. Nikon's 52mm Series VII holder which had standard 52mm front female threads whereas most Series holders used a front retaining ring with no threads or the standard series thread). Leica went so far as to incorporate a Series 5.5 holder as part of the lenses they offered for their CL model. The rubber lens hood functioned as the retaining ring.

 

[Moto-Uno]

For what it,s worth, many of the Tiffen filter holders slipped over the lens with a serrated (sp) metal flange that allowed one to easily bend them + or _ 1/2 a mm . So in other words , close counted ! Peter

 

[seany65]

@Dwig anf Moto_Uno: Thanks for the extra info.

This may seem a bit daft to some of you, but as I've measured the outside diameter of the lens barrel and as "It looks like 24mm to me in this light, I've got a torch pointed at it and I'm using a magnifying glass so I'll go with that", I've decided to see if a 25mm push-on UV filter can fit and if so I'll look for a 25mm push-on lens hood.

I hope no-one feels insulted by this as it seems I'm ignoring the advice to get series 6 filters and hoods, but this seems like the simplest solution to me. Of course, if it doesn't work then I'll have only wasted a few £ and a little bit of time.

Thanks to everyone for the info and advice.

 

[seany65]

The 25mm push on Lens hood I bought seems to work alright. Although early on I hadn't noticed that there is a slight 'stepping up' of diameter nearer the body and I nearly pushed too hard after I'd adjusted the three 'flaps' on the hood to fit the lens barrel.