What are your feelings about this....

"He also studies different religions’ scriptures in their original language, and researches them, using today’s established science, in order to understand the meaning of life."

Good luck Keith! ;)
 
Roger Hicks said:
In my book, the man's an idiot, and I'd not trust him as far as I could throw him -- though that might be a surprisingly long way.

Cheers,

R.
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I just blew coffee all over my desk...thanks Roger! LOL
 
I'm still somewhat seething from his email. I can't yet respond without using all sorts of adjective expletives....
 
kbg32 said:
Yes there are few images, which might look like processed, either they were taken in film or analogical camera and later imported to digital, where we have to rely on the photographer.
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Either film or analogical, huh?
Apart from the sentence making not much sense, a scanned or printed film negative doesn't only 'look like processed' - it IS processed.

And he asks you for RAW files of photos HE chose from YOUR website to enter HIS competition - seriously? Come on, he just wants to steal your pictures...
 
There were a total of seven images selected -

From him. Part of his email -
"We just got the score from our International juries.

http://www.pbase.com/keithbg/image/104988775
65 (Value 12, Clarity 12.5, Composition 16, Style 12.5, Skill 12) -
Selected

http://www.pbase.com/keithbg/image/105277583
63 (Value 11, Clarity 12, Composition 16, Style 12, Skill 12) - Selected

http://www.pbase.com/keithbg/image/133914886
66 (Value 13, Clarity 12, Composition 17, Style 12, Skill 12) - Selected

http://www.pbase.com/keithbg/image/105419441
64 (Value 12, Clarity 12, Composition 16, Style 12, Skill 13) - Selected

http://www.pbase.com/keithbg/image/104775654
60 (Value 11, Clarity 11, Composition 15, Style 12, Skill 11) - Selected

http://www.pbase.com/keithbg/image/116406316
64 (Value 12, Clarity 12, Composition 16, Style 12, Skill 12) - Selected

http://www.pbase.com/keithbg/image/143738206
65 (Value 11.5, Clarity 11, Composition 17, Style 12.5, Skill 13) -
Selected

You need to submit the selected photograph in JPEG,
which must have EXIF data and must be unedited and without any post
processing."

All of these were processed from RAW in Photoshop. I was kind of surprised by his selection, as I consider these images kind of pedestrian in my general work. I would never have thought to submit these to a competition. But, as they were his choices, you know never know.....
 
"our International juries"? "preciously written"? "analogical camera"?

My BS detector just asploded...
 
Bizarre isn't it?

I have to say I am no fool. I have been exhibiting steadily for the last 30 years. I was represented by a gallery here in NYC that closed in the mid-late '90s. I was doing ok. I was a bit disillusioned after the closure with the gallery scene and stepped back for a number of years. I just took the time to concentrate on my work without any pressures. I had a teacher years ago tell me, "If someone offers you wall space, take it". I always took that advice and out of it, some really wonderful things happened that I never would have expected.

So... you never know. This "gentleman" contacted me. Was familiar with my work, and asked me to participate with his choices. I just didn't realize that there was a definitive philosophy he followed and expected his participants to also follow. After all, he uses his books for workshops and univerity classes.....:p He's the master.....;)
 
I don't believe in any award where you submit pictures, good pictures get published, exposed, used in whatever way and good awards give prizes to pictures which were published, exposed, used in some way. Now, to publish pictures in good places all what you told about different opinions between the editor and the photographer can still happen but it is at a much higher level, with jobs involved, sells, real money so the people involved are usually much more serious and professional than in a contest...even tough it still helps to have good contacts to publlish a certain work somewhere. Finally, if the question is about post processing, well, I think everyone should do what works for him/her to achieve what he/she is loooking for so, at least in principle, I think both opinions have the same weight. Still, I can think of many good photoggraphers who didn't do a lot of post processing, even Ansel Adams did in the darkroom what today would be called post processing.

GLF
 
If you notice the sentence structure of the guy making the rules, it seems english is not his first language. Im thinking asian from the way he writes. Maybe Japanese. So him calling it "analogical camera" and invalidating him because of it seems petty to me. Also invalidating him by counting converstion of raw to jpg as post processing is also petty. Thats obviously not the intent of his rules.

I dont think there is any conspiracy here. Hes just a guy that has rules for his contest. Set the camera to jpg and no doing anything to it after its shot. He wants the contest to be about photography and skill with a camera not skill with photoshop. Its not one of those contest where you take a digital shot and it serves simply as a rough sketch for the graphic artist to start with.

I dont see any reason to hate this guy.
 
He's Turkish I believe. It is his philosophy that everything that needs to be done, should be done in camera. Converting from RAW to jpeg does invalidate his rules as he stands, because it involves post processing.
 
kbg32 said:
He's Turkish I believe. It is his philosophy that everything that needs to be done, should be done in camera. Converting from RAW to jpeg does invalidate his rules as he stands, because it involves post processing.
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By forcing definitions on the clear intent of his rule invalidates those who make such and argument making them seem juvenile. By your same definition you can say that the very nature of a digital camera is the camera processing the data, and 'processing film' is post processing because it uses the word 'processing' and on and on. These kinds of arguments are juvenile and invalidate only those making them.
 
68degrees said:
By forcing definitions on the clear intent of his rule invalidates those who make such and argument making them seem juvenile. By your same definition you can say that the very nature of a digital camera is the camera processing the data, and 'processing film' is post processing because it uses the word 'processing' and on and on. These kinds of arguments are juvenile and invalidate only those making them.
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I am not forcing any definitions on his rule. It is HIS rule, his definition, and his philosophy, that I find totally ridiculous.

Oh, and thank you for pointing out how "juvenile" this all is.
 
kbg32 said:
"Dear XXXXXXXXX,

We do not support any kind of post processing.
We are very sorry to hear that you don't know any
professional photographer that would be happy with the jpegs right out of
the camera. It is a very common misconception that every image needs some kind post processing.

We have some of our bestselling books, where we explain how to get perfect exposure without any kind post processing. We have used these books as textbook in many universities, field trips, and workshops before make them to pubic.

95% images in the award are without post processed, not even minor
correction. Photographer submits us the raw file. Yes there are few images, which might look like processed, either they were taken in film or analogical camera and later imported to digital, where we have to rely on the photographer. We only allow black and white conversion without any processing, and cropping for the award."

He is now asking me for my RAW files.
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What would he do in the "pre-digital" age? Ask for the negative? The printing process is post-processing. Ansel Adams would be out of his tree club.

His (not Adams's) position is stubborn at best. But like many others have stated, it's his competition, his rules (although those could have been clearly stated beforehand).

Does the guy have his meals cooked, or served straight from the farm?
 
kbg32 said:
I am not forcing any definitions on his rule. It is HIS rule, his definition, and his philosophy, that I find totally ridiculous.

Oh, and thank you for pointing out how "juvenile" this all is.
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yes you are. The man clearly does not regard saving a raw file to jpeg as post processing. His contest, his rules, his definitions of what post processing means. To force our own definitions on his words to invalidate his opinion is a childish argument. There is no need to hate this guy.
 
I know of no publisher/printer who will take a raw file and drop it into a pagination/pre press work flow. None. He's talking rubbish and doesn't know what he's talking about. Most will work with EPS, TIFF or jpeg files afaik.
 
68degrees said:
yes you are. The man clearly does not regard saving a raw file to jpeg as post processing. His contest, his rules, his definitions of what post processing means. To force our own definitions on his words to invalidate his opinion is a childish argument. There is no need to hate this guy.
Click to expand...
Hate him? Of course not. Regard him as a fool? That's another matter.

Cheers,

R.
 
68degrees said:
yes you are. The man clearly does not regard saving a raw file to jpeg as post processing. His contest, his rules, his definitions of what post processing means. To force our own definitions on his words to invalidate his opinion is a childish argument. There is no need to hate this guy.
Click to expand...


No one is forcing any definitions but him. HE can have any rules HE wants. I don't hate him. I just do not agree with HIS argument and HIS rules.
 
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