Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Emmm...no, hypocrisy has nothing to do with it. Zeal for "purity", however, is. And one cannot be "pure" if one cannot lead by example (sic, unprocessed meals).
Any extreme --in my view-- is ridiculous. Absolute measures and rules are made for lazy minds (or lazy enforcers). Dictatorships, most surely.
Anyhoo, where were we? Yes: his domain, his rules.
jtm6
Well-known
Tell him to change his default settings so the jpeg images open an image viewer.
kxl is exactly right. The reason why a specific file type opens in a specific app has to do with his computer, not the file type. He clearly doesn't understand computers. This voodoo wizardry goes back to at least 1984.
Besides, files can be manipulated and resaved in a RAW format.
5:00 PM
It's a light machine
Well you know, HCB never cropped a negative. And he always used a 50mm lens. And he wore the same shirt for 60 years.
Ridiculous.
Ridiculous.
kokoshawnuff
Alex
Absolute lunacy and what seems like complete ignorance about digital photography in general.
While I have heard of "professional" photographers (not many) that shoot only jpeg, I've not heard of anyone with an understanding and knowledge base that shoots RAW and doesn't do any processing.
While I have heard of "professional" photographers (not many) that shoot only jpeg, I've not heard of anyone with an understanding and knowledge base that shoots RAW and doesn't do any processing.
gb hill
Veteran
Adams used a post processing technique known to us analogue b&w enthusiast as burning & dodging. The joker is trying to sell books. IMO he is nothing more than a spamer.
Most contest allow for bumping the contrast a bit. As long as a photo still retains it's natural look as a photograph then what is wrong with it? It's photo manipulation like HDR etc. that changes the entire look of a photograph that is a no no.
Photo_Smith
Well-known
Can't get exited about this, the guy makes his rules which may be born from an ignorance/pedantic standpoint.
In the end I have never found it that productive to argue about something like this, just raise an eyebrow and walk on.
In the end I have never found it that productive to argue about something like this, just raise an eyebrow and walk on.
68degrees
Well-known
what is HCB?
5:00 PM
It's a light machine
HCB is Henri Cartier-Bresson, the patron saint of street photography and other things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Cartier-Bresson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Cartier-Bresson
68degrees
Well-known
Ok thanks. So the Ansel Adams of street photography I guess. Interesting Ill have a read thank you.
KM-25
Well-known
Then you don't know enough professional photographers. In terms of my digital work, it's rarely shoot in raw anymore, all out of camera jpegs. Frankly I find it refreshing to hear the contest's take on it, straight out of camera digital is like shooting chrome, you either nailed it or you did not and that takes far more talent then sitting in front of a computer to fill up your pbase or flicker gallery with yet more fauxtography....always will too. And the Lightroom is not the darkroom, never will be so it might be a good time to accept that for what it is. As far as sending the RAW file, I would find some other way around that.
Maybe the world is finally changing for the better after all....
newsgrunt
Well-known
KM25
I shoot 99% jpeg so I'm the odd man out amongst my peers. Agree, if you get everything right, then the file should be fine but there are some who want the safety net of raw.
I'm in the photojournalism milieu so every image gets worked somewhat whether on my end or pre press/image enhancers. My friends who do weddings do some post as well. and the pp the photojournalists do is not very much and in fact is very much less than what we did when the Hand of God was an accepted practice. Am glad that is deep in the past
I shoot 99% jpeg so I'm the odd man out amongst my peers. Agree, if you get everything right, then the file should be fine but there are some who want the safety net of raw.
I'm in the photojournalism milieu so every image gets worked somewhat whether on my end or pre press/image enhancers. My friends who do weddings do some post as well. and the pp the photojournalists do is not very much and in fact is very much less than what we did when the Hand of God was an accepted practice. Am glad that is deep in the past
kokoshawnuff
Alex
No it isn't. A jpeg is nothing like E6
Straight out of the camera jpeg means nothing as modern cameras have a multitude of adjustments that can be fine tuned. Making adjustments in camera as opposed to on a computer is neither purer nor a more noble way of shooting
68degrees
Well-known
balsy! point KM! Outstanding post!!
I love this part the best. Fauxtography. hahahahah omg thats awesome!!
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Depends on the type of professional. I know a hell of a lot of pros. Depending on what you do, studio, news, depends how each one of them handles their files. The majority of the editorial/news pros that I know, handle everything in straight out of the camera jpegs due to their deadlines and time constraints. Either they got the shot, or they didn't. None of them have the time to sit and do any adjustments other then adding caption metadata. But, when they have the time, and are posting to their portfolio sites, they all do some sort of post process adjusting their images to finalize them to THEIR liking.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
He's the opposite end of Ansel Adams.
I always thought talent was in finding content and framing it in an interesting way and not only in "nailing" exposure.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I just sent this to the gentleman after he asked me where my RAW files were -
"To be honest, I do not feel comfortable or ethical sending out my RAW
files to have them "processed" by someone else. These images will not be
mine as I envisioned them. I do very little post processing.
Ocaissionally, depending on the camera, I might have some dust cloning to
do. Even if only for dust removal, the images would have opened up an
image processing program.
I know you have rules, but you asked me to participate with the images you
picked. I would very much like my images to be "judged" as they are.
Ethically, it is the only way for me to to participate. It is how I
intended them to be seen. If this is not acceptable, then I ask my images
to be withdrawn and my money refunded."
This was his response to the above -
"We can not understand why you think someone will process your image,
in the last email and all our rules, we clearly said it, we do not support
any post processing. Then why would we do it? All the image submitted to
us is original raw files or jpeg which are not opened in any post processing
software. If you can not take photographs which are not good
in original, then its your technical understanding of photography, which
is poor, we will publish the image as it is. We award the original image,
not a post-process image.
You said - "Ocaissionally, depending on the camera, I might have some dust
cloning to do do. Even if only for dust removal, the images would have opened
up an image processing program."
You also said - "I would very much like my images to be "judged" as they
are." Then you send edited images and talks about ethics? You said, "as they are"
- dear Keith, how can a edited image is "as they are"?
Well we value your opinion, but can you tell us, how we could know that you
only did the dust removal without seeing the original file?
Anything is possible in Photoshop, how can we trust it?
The award rules are same for everyone. We have suggested those as we know
they might score well by the judges, if you want your photograph to send
the judge, submit again to the member's page, and we will give team to
our jury."
"To be honest, I do not feel comfortable or ethical sending out my RAW
files to have them "processed" by someone else. These images will not be
mine as I envisioned them. I do very little post processing.
Ocaissionally, depending on the camera, I might have some dust cloning to
do. Even if only for dust removal, the images would have opened up an
image processing program.
I know you have rules, but you asked me to participate with the images you
picked. I would very much like my images to be "judged" as they are.
Ethically, it is the only way for me to to participate. It is how I
intended them to be seen. If this is not acceptable, then I ask my images
to be withdrawn and my money refunded."
This was his response to the above -
"We can not understand why you think someone will process your image,
in the last email and all our rules, we clearly said it, we do not support
any post processing. Then why would we do it? All the image submitted to
us is original raw files or jpeg which are not opened in any post processing
software. If you can not take photographs which are not good
in original, then its your technical understanding of photography, which
is poor, we will publish the image as it is. We award the original image,
not a post-process image.
You said - "Ocaissionally, depending on the camera, I might have some dust
cloning to do do. Even if only for dust removal, the images would have opened
up an image processing program."
You also said - "I would very much like my images to be "judged" as they
are." Then you send edited images and talks about ethics? You said, "as they are"
- dear Keith, how can a edited image is "as they are"?
Well we value your opinion, but can you tell us, how we could know that you
only did the dust removal without seeing the original file?
Anything is possible in Photoshop, how can we trust it?
The award rules are same for everyone. We have suggested those as we know
they might score well by the judges, if you want your photograph to send
the judge, submit again to the member's page, and we will give team to
our jury."
68degrees
Well-known
What was the file extension on the files when you first gave them to him? Was it JPG or was it some file extension like .psp for paint shop pro or some such for your editing program? If it wasnt .jpg then he has a point. How does he know that you havent edited them
I think he wants the raw files to see how much "dust" you have removed and changed. I think he is totally reasonable.
I also dont understand what you mean by "I do not feel comfortable or ethical sending out my RAW files to have them "processed" by someone else." His whole point is he wants unprocessed files. Thats why he wants the raw. His definition of 'process' does not include saving as jpg. He is concerned with editing the images. Im sure he would be fine with dust removal but he wants to know thats all you did.
I think this guy is legit and I think he now thinks that you have heavily edited your photos and that is why you wont give him the raws. I dont blame him for thinking that because of how you have handled this whole interaction with him. At the same time I am very sure that you did not do anything more than remove dust specks so not to worry so I wouldnt take his remark seriously or personaly about you having no camera skill.
I think you should take advantage of this opportunity. He likes your work and he only wants to make sure that the contest is fair for everyone there is no photoshop magic going on. Thats reasonable. Enough paranoia and defensiveness, its holding you back in my view for what if anything that may or may not be worth to you. im just someone objective here.
I think he wants the raw files to see how much "dust" you have removed and changed. I think he is totally reasonable.
I also dont understand what you mean by "I do not feel comfortable or ethical sending out my RAW files to have them "processed" by someone else." His whole point is he wants unprocessed files. Thats why he wants the raw. His definition of 'process' does not include saving as jpg. He is concerned with editing the images. Im sure he would be fine with dust removal but he wants to know thats all you did.
I think this guy is legit and I think he now thinks that you have heavily edited your photos and that is why you wont give him the raws. I dont blame him for thinking that because of how you have handled this whole interaction with him. At the same time I am very sure that you did not do anything more than remove dust specks so not to worry so I wouldnt take his remark seriously or personaly about you having no camera skill.
I think you should take advantage of this opportunity. He likes your work and he only wants to make sure that the contest is fair for everyone there is no photoshop magic going on. Thats reasonable. Enough paranoia and defensiveness, its holding you back in my view for what if anything that may or may not be worth to you. im just someone objective here.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Jpegs of course.
68degrees
Well-known
Ok if it was .jpg that you sent him and when he clicked on it photoshop opened up, all that means is that photoshop is associated with .jpg on his computer. He should therefore be used to .jpg opening with photoshop so why was he alarmed. What was different about your files? Was it .jpg or .jpeg? Its possible he associated .jpg with his viewing program but .jpeg was still associated with photoshop by default. Im just trying to figure out why your jpegs opened with an unexpected program for him. Sure its easy just to say "because hes an idiot" but something unusual is going on here to create a misunderstanding and it has to do with your files. Its interesting when I asked you what was the file extension and you said jpegs. The extension would be .jpg .jpeg .bmp .gif .tif So we still dont know what extension your files have. Would you mind posting the full name of one of the files you sent him? including the extension.