kbg32
neo-romanticist
I was invited to participate in this "Photo of the Day". The reviewer even asked me to submit specific images to greater my chances of winning. I said why not. Give it a go. I submitted my images and the reviewer esponded as to why my images were opening up in "CS2" for the Mac. I told him that the images were process via RAW in CS(whatever) and converted to jpeg.
This is what he wrote -
"Dear XXXXXXXXX,
We do not support any kind of post processing.
We are very sorry to hear that you don't know any
professional photographer that would be happy with the jpegs right out of
the camera. It is a very common misconception that every image needs some kind post processing.
We have some of our bestselling books, where we explain how to get perfect exposure without any kind post processing. We have used these books as textbook in many universities, field trips, and workshops before make them to pubic.
95% images in the award are without post processed, not even minor
correction. Photographer submits us the raw file. Yes there are few images, which might look like processed, either they were taken in film or analogical camera and later imported to digital, where we have to rely on the photographer. We only allow black and white conversion without any processing, and cropping for the award."
He is now asking me for my RAW files.
I strongly believe in post processing. I treat an image in post as if I was in a darkroom. Nothing is finished from the camera. For me, the darkroom, or lightroom, is a means to the end. It is where I put the final touches on my vision and style.
I know that this has been discussed here before, but I now feel like writing back and withdrawing my images. It is reminding me of the war between Ansel Adams/Beaumont Newhall and William Mortensen.
Cheers.
This is what he wrote -
"Dear XXXXXXXXX,
We do not support any kind of post processing.
We are very sorry to hear that you don't know any
professional photographer that would be happy with the jpegs right out of
the camera. It is a very common misconception that every image needs some kind post processing.
We have some of our bestselling books, where we explain how to get perfect exposure without any kind post processing. We have used these books as textbook in many universities, field trips, and workshops before make them to pubic.
95% images in the award are without post processed, not even minor
correction. Photographer submits us the raw file. Yes there are few images, which might look like processed, either they were taken in film or analogical camera and later imported to digital, where we have to rely on the photographer. We only allow black and white conversion without any processing, and cropping for the award."
He is now asking me for my RAW files.
I strongly believe in post processing. I treat an image in post as if I was in a darkroom. Nothing is finished from the camera. For me, the darkroom, or lightroom, is a means to the end. It is where I put the final touches on my vision and style.
I know that this has been discussed here before, but I now feel like writing back and withdrawing my images. It is reminding me of the war between Ansel Adams/Beaumont Newhall and William Mortensen.
Cheers.
68degrees
Well-known
You believe in post processing and he doesnt. Its his contest. He can set whatever rules he wants. He obviously thinks you are unprofessional and lack ability to make an award winning photo with just a camera. He places a lot of value on that criteria. Its just his opinion and everybody has one, I wouldnt take it personally. He wants the contest to be about phtography camera skills only, not image editing skills. IMO just find another contest where post processing is allowed and don't be too offended. Cant change people.
thegman
Veteran
Agree with 68degrees, regardless about how you feel about post-processing, it's his competition he sets the rules. I don't really like the competitions often run by lens/camera companies which stipulate using their products, but that's my problem, not theirs.
MarylandBill
Established
I personally think the position is a little extreme. I could see if they wanted to limit the sort of processing done, but there are definitely times any photographer might choose to shoot raw and then convert (like when the noise reduction of a camera becomes heavy handed at high ISOs). Further since you were invited to participate, they should have clearly spelled out these rules in advance, not surprised you with them after you took the trouble to submit photographs.
--
Bill
--
Bill
newsgrunt
Well-known
Respectfully, I say they're full of it. I know of no professional photographer who does NOT do some post on their photos.
This is a contest I would skip if I were in your shoes.
V-12
Well-known
I smell a rat.
While the organisers may object to outrageous HDR or montage, post processing is as simple as making sure the colour balance is correct, spotting any dust bunnies from the sky, and any one of a thousand simple things to correct the image.
But the only organisations who need unprocessed images, or at least minimally corrected images, are stock agencies, or people out to use an image commercially. They only want uncorrected images because, lets face it, a photographer can 'luck in' on a great image, but they aren't all great at post processing. So is this a trawling excercise with a duplicitous intent?
While the organisers may object to outrageous HDR or montage, post processing is as simple as making sure the colour balance is correct, spotting any dust bunnies from the sky, and any one of a thousand simple things to correct the image.
But the only organisations who need unprocessed images, or at least minimally corrected images, are stock agencies, or people out to use an image commercially. They only want uncorrected images because, lets face it, a photographer can 'luck in' on a great image, but they aren't all great at post processing. So is this a trawling excercise with a duplicitous intent?
kbg32
neo-romanticist
I just believe he wants to sell his books.
After all, as I wrote, HE invited me, told me which images to submit via my online portfolio. I never hide the fact that my images were processed through CSxxxx. My images are not processed like Instagram filters!
After all, as I wrote, HE invited me, told me which images to submit via my online portfolio. I never hide the fact that my images were processed through CSxxxx. My images are not processed like Instagram filters!
newsgrunt
Well-known
They're probably suggesting in camera tweaking ala increased saturation, sharpening etc.. so while it is out of the camera, there may be a lot of hokey pokey going on processing-wise. If everything was set to neutral, I might be impressed 
Would you be paid for inclusion in the book ?
Would you be paid for inclusion in the book ?
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
I, too, agree with 68degrees.
j.scooter
Veteran
I wouldn't give anyone my RAW files or negatives.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
A raw capture is not a finished image, every raw converter will treat it slightly differently. So the notion of sending in raw files as entries into a contest as a baseline for evaluation of merit and quality is ridiculous.
I'd withdraw my photos and demand refund of any entry fees.
I have no problems with "doing it right in the camera" or with capturing raw—still doing it right!—and rendering my photos afterwards. I usually do the latter, and could care less what some goofballs at an exhibition think. Or want to sell me. ;-)
More importantly, when I submit photos for an exhibition or contest, I strip ALL metadata other than IPTC annotation for creator, copyright, caption and title. Unless the competition is a brand specific contest where they want to highlight camera bodies and lenses, the choice of equipment and software I use to create my photographs is mine and not relevant to a judging evaluation or a client's use.
G
I'd withdraw my photos and demand refund of any entry fees.
I have no problems with "doing it right in the camera" or with capturing raw—still doing it right!—and rendering my photos afterwards. I usually do the latter, and could care less what some goofballs at an exhibition think. Or want to sell me. ;-)
More importantly, when I submit photos for an exhibition or contest, I strip ALL metadata other than IPTC annotation for creator, copyright, caption and title. Unless the competition is a brand specific contest where they want to highlight camera bodies and lenses, the choice of equipment and software I use to create my photographs is mine and not relevant to a judging evaluation or a client's use.
G
waynec
Established
Ok, have you seen any of these contest images online or in a book, magazine? I would like to see some images personally. To see the range of images and to see if credit was given. Him asking for specific images is weird. Ask for his business license. Make sure he's legit. Tell him you only deal with legitimate businesses.
Secondly, ask him for the rules of the competition on paper or online. Are there fee's involved? Do you retain rights to the image. Does he have rights of usage and what are they.
Third I agree it's his competition, his rules, but unless he's totally open as to his business dealings it would be a dead deal for me. There is no digital camera that doesn't do in camera processing. How does that fly with him?
I've looked at a number of so called contests and the fine print was always against the submitter and for un-limited usage by the people hosting the contest.
Secondly, ask him for the rules of the competition on paper or online. Are there fee's involved? Do you retain rights to the image. Does he have rights of usage and what are they.
Third I agree it's his competition, his rules, but unless he's totally open as to his business dealings it would be a dead deal for me. There is no digital camera that doesn't do in camera processing. How does that fly with him?
I've looked at a number of so called contests and the fine print was always against the submitter and for un-limited usage by the people hosting the contest.
sailor
Well-known
Maybe I'm too suspicious but this sounds like a con to me. I would not be sending raw files to anyone - full stop!
Lawrence A.
Established
I think he's an idiot, but -yeah -- it's his contest, and he gets to make the rules.
Ansel Adams once noted there are very few photographs that cannot benefit from a little judicious dodging an burning.
In camera processing is relatively crude overall, compared to what one can get from processing a raw file. And let's not pretend that camera settings are not about processing. Most pros do, in fact, post process their images, unless they are running a factory process where "good enough" is the motto.
So, what I think is that he's a self righteous jerk.
DON'T GIVE YOUR RAW FILES TO ANYONE. JUST LIKE YOU WOULD NEVER GIVE YOUR NEGATIVE AWAY.
The file is just information; the photograph is made in post. I'd politely tell him to go to hell.
Ansel Adams once noted there are very few photographs that cannot benefit from a little judicious dodging an burning.
In camera processing is relatively crude overall, compared to what one can get from processing a raw file. And let's not pretend that camera settings are not about processing. Most pros do, in fact, post process their images, unless they are running a factory process where "good enough" is the motto.
So, what I think is that he's a self righteous jerk.
DON'T GIVE YOUR RAW FILES TO ANYONE. JUST LIKE YOU WOULD NEVER GIVE YOUR NEGATIVE AWAY.
The file is just information; the photograph is made in post. I'd politely tell him to go to hell.
ray*j*gun
Veteran
kbg32
neo-romanticist
He believes that any processing outside of the camera is wrong and that if one does it, they are not "professional" or are just not knowledgeable on how to use a a camera. If not, he suggests buying one of his books!
"It is a very common misconception that every image needs some kind post processing.
We have some of our bestselling books, where we explain how to get perfect exposure without any kind post processing. We have used these books as textbook in many universities, field trips, and workshops before make them to pubic."
"It is a very common misconception that every image needs some kind post processing.
We have some of our bestselling books, where we explain how to get perfect exposure without any kind post processing. We have used these books as textbook in many universities, field trips, and workshops before make them to pubic."
sailor
Well-known
Once again I would be very wary of this. I'm not clear what part a "Reviewer" has in a photo contest. Every contest I've known advertises itself and then lets the entries flood in. Nobody contacts particular photographers and asks for certain photographs to be entered. How is this ethical?
This sounds like a con which I encountered when I was a headteacher. We were invited to send in children's poetry for a competition with the winners being published in a book. What happened was that ALL the poems were selected and published in a book which every parent bought because their child's work was in it. Take it from me that not all the poems were worthy of publishing so it was definitely a con.
This sounds like a con which I encountered when I was a headteacher. We were invited to send in children's poetry for a competition with the winners being published in a book. What happened was that ALL the poems were selected and published in a book which every parent bought because their child's work was in it. Take it from me that not all the poems were worthy of publishing so it was definitely a con.
finguanzo
Well-known
Pull the photos..
All digital pictures are processed, whether in camera, by the manufacturer, or out of the camera, by yourself. Only way to not have "unprocessed" images would be to shoot film..
Sounds extreme, in a not so smart way..
I guarantee that most of the other photographers are lying to him.
As others said, Ive never seen any pro shoot raw and not process to some extent, AP, Bloomberg, Reuters, I know a few from each..
All digital pictures are processed, whether in camera, by the manufacturer, or out of the camera, by yourself. Only way to not have "unprocessed" images would be to shoot film..
Sounds extreme, in a not so smart way..
I guarantee that most of the other photographers are lying to him.
As others said, Ive never seen any pro shoot raw and not process to some extent, AP, Bloomberg, Reuters, I know a few from each..
kbg32
neo-romanticist
Roger Hicks
Veteran
In my book, the man's an idiot, and I'd not trust him as far as I could throw him -- though that might be a surprisingly long way.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.