Huck Finn
Well-known
copake_ham said:
The issue was whether it is made under license. It is not.
Who makes the ZI? This project has been a collaboration between Cosina & Carl Zeiss AG & it is a product which Zeiss owns & retains the rights to. It is assembled by workers at a Cosina factory, but that is different than saying it is "made by Cosina."
S
Socke
Guest
Aha, and a Corvette is a rebranded Daewoo?
A Porsche Boxter a rebranded Valmet whatever?
An Apple Powerbook a rebrandet Dell and an Apple iBook a rebrandedt Asus .....
A Porsche Boxter a rebranded Valmet whatever?
An Apple Powerbook a rebrandet Dell and an Apple iBook a rebrandedt Asus .....
C
ch1
Guest
Huck Finn said:
As the saying goes: "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck - then, by golly, it IS a duck!" :bang:
http://www.zeissikon.com/faq.htm
Q: Who developed the ZI camera?
A: CZ, in collaboration with the design bureau Henssler & Schultheiss and the camera maker Cosina.
Q: Why Cosina?
A: Cosina today is one of the most experienced manufacturers of rangefinder type cameras.
Q: Who manufactures the Carl Zeiss T* ZM-mount lenses?
A: 2 types are manufactured by Carl Zeiss in Oberkochen, 5 types are manufactured by Cosina in Japan.
S
StuartR
Guest
Who cares? Have you actually seen the Zeiss Ikon and/or the lenses? They are phenomenal. I use an MP and an M7 with summilux ASPH's, and I was impressed enough to buy the 21mm and 25mm lenses while I was in Japan. The build quality is fantastic, the results are phenomenal, and I could get both lenses with finders and a 21/25 hood for less than the cost of the either the Leica 21 or 24mm lens. Now, you still need Leica if you want the speed, but from a pragmatist's perspective, the ZI lenses are a no brainer for the 25mm and wider lenses. Many of these "budget" manufacturers are capable of turning out a product every bit as good as their top shelf competition, but it does not make sense for them to, as they don't have the brand position. Look at Konica, they are older than Kodak and have made some good cameras, but they were never really considered top of the line. But then they come out with the Hexar AF and Hexar RF that really pushed the envelope for their respective markets. But as others have said, these are entirely Zeiss designed. What Cosina was not capable of doing (machinery tolerances etc), they are doing in Germany.
But anyway, whatever. I think there is a difference between a camera and lens system that is done entirely in house, but it is more of an aesthetic difference than a practical one. The world is so deep into globalization at this point that you cannot tell me that the "made in Germany" cameras are made entirely of German components -- you are going to have Chinese, Taiwanese or Korean electronics, a shutter curtain from the Swiss, metals sourced from Africa and Eurasia, leather from South America etc etc etc. For Leica, certain parts are made in Portugal. It really is a fantasy to believe any "Made in X" things any more...at least for complex items.
But anyway, whatever. I think there is a difference between a camera and lens system that is done entirely in house, but it is more of an aesthetic difference than a practical one. The world is so deep into globalization at this point that you cannot tell me that the "made in Germany" cameras are made entirely of German components -- you are going to have Chinese, Taiwanese or Korean electronics, a shutter curtain from the Swiss, metals sourced from Africa and Eurasia, leather from South America etc etc etc. For Leica, certain parts are made in Portugal. It really is a fantasy to believe any "Made in X" things any more...at least for complex items.
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So everybody pretty much agress that Zeiss is not coming out with more S-Mount lenses?
Too bad. It would have been easier than F-Mount; new RF lenses are all built to the Leica 51.6mm standard and would just have to use the mount that Cosina already made.
And it would have been less competition. Nikon does not sell S-Mount lenses without an expensive camera attached to them. And they only make two focal lengths. The Cosina S-Mount lenses were all good sellers, no competition except from the almost 50 year old stuff. Loads of F-Mount lenses around, and on the used market lots of low prices on good lenses. I bought a 55mm F3.5 Micro-Nikkor in F-Mount for $25. Try that in S-Mount.
Maybe they'll come around. S-Mount. Then, the Contax IV.
Too bad. It would have been easier than F-Mount; new RF lenses are all built to the Leica 51.6mm standard and would just have to use the mount that Cosina already made.
And it would have been less competition. Nikon does not sell S-Mount lenses without an expensive camera attached to them. And they only make two focal lengths. The Cosina S-Mount lenses were all good sellers, no competition except from the almost 50 year old stuff. Loads of F-Mount lenses around, and on the used market lots of low prices on good lenses. I bought a 55mm F3.5 Micro-Nikkor in F-Mount for $25. Try that in S-Mount.
Maybe they'll come around. S-Mount. Then, the Contax IV.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Brian Sweeney said:
Amen, Brother, Amen!
:angel:
William
JohnL
Very confused
December 21, 2006?
Mazurka
Well-known
Brian Sweeney said:
...and repeat Nippon Kogaku's folly, making it incompatible with the Zeiss Ikon Contax from last century? I don't think so.
Two position Rangefinder Cam. Why didn't Nikon think of that???
Mazurka
Well-known
Brian Sweeney said:
Good thinking, but what would be the cost?
You know, 50-year-old Canons had built-in RF/VF with variable-magnifcation, something the Leica M doesn't have even to this very day. But of course, Zeiss is in no danger of being extinct.
S
Socke
Guest
Mazurka said:Good thinking, but what would be the cost?
You know, 50-year-old Canons had built-in RF/VF with variable-magnifcation, something the Leica M doesn't have even to this very day. But of course, Zeiss is in no danger of being extinct.
The Contax G has this, too. I like it a lot, those used to fixed mag. viewfinders hate it.
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
Focus by changing the lens-to-film distance like the Contax AX does (Automatic Back Focusing). Then you can use a variety of lens mounts.
R.J.
R.J.
Mazurka
Well-known
Socke said:
Don't you think it would have been called "the greatest thing ever happened to the RF camera" if it carried the Leica red dot?
Bryan Lee
Expat Street Photographer
I didnt know about the AX and its auto focus features. That even adds to my suspicion of a Digital Auto focusing body in F mount. It would make sense to take that concept and change the mount and convert to digital.
To bad its not released this week I could have got my Wife one for christmas. This year she got a couple new large format lenses and new scanner.
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
Bryan Lee said:
Yeah, Bryan! Did you hear that, Carl Zeiss? Those Christmas bonuses have to be spent before December 25th!
Happy Holidays and good cheese to you, too, Bryan.
R.J.
Bryan Lee
Expat Street Photographer
The Original Zeiss Concept for the AX
AUTOMATIC BACK FOCUSING
Our new CONTAX focusing system is called Automatic Back
Focusing. The AX is composed of an internal camera body
inside an exterior camera body. Two new technologies have
been brought together to achieve this goal. The first is
ceramic technology where a very finely finished ceramic
rod acts as a guide rail and motor part to move the film
plane forward and back to gain focus. Riding on this
ceramic rod is a matching ceramic ring attached to the
internal camera body composed of film gate, frame and
pentaprism. Two microns (2/1000 mm) is all that separates
one sliding component from the other. This gap is so small
that special lubricants must be employed since normal grease
or oils are particulate at 10 to 50 microns (10/1000 to
50/1000 mm). This super lubricant has a particulate size
of less than 2 microns. The level of precision exhibited
here is required for accuracy at the level of the CARL
ZEISS lens and also to prevent chattering and misalignment
of the film plane components.
Another rod composed of metal with a lower fit tolerance
is used to assist the ceramic rail and prevent chattering
and misalignment. The combination of the two rails provides
a railroad track-like surface for the film plane to ride
on. Surrounding these rails is the block called the internal
camera body, composed of the guide rail sockets (one is
ceramic), housing, film gate, and pentaprism assembly.
The second new technology is the Ultra Sonic Motor (USM).
This is the mechanism that drives the ceramic collar and
inner camera body forward and back on the rails. The
virtues of the USM technology are precision control and
extremely quiet operation. The Automatic Back Focusing
system on the AX can move from minimum focusing distance
to infinity or back in less than 450 ms. This is a very
quick indeed. The time required to achieve an intermediate
focusing distance is minute. Additionally, since the film
is moving and not the rotation of the lens, we can focus
long or short focal length lenses over the same time period.
The AX offers auto focusing precision beyond any other
camera in the 35mm arena, without compromising the manual
focusing system one iota.
AUTOMATIC BACK FOCUSING
Our new CONTAX focusing system is called Automatic Back
Focusing. The AX is composed of an internal camera body
inside an exterior camera body. Two new technologies have
been brought together to achieve this goal. The first is
ceramic technology where a very finely finished ceramic
rod acts as a guide rail and motor part to move the film
plane forward and back to gain focus. Riding on this
ceramic rod is a matching ceramic ring attached to the
internal camera body composed of film gate, frame and
pentaprism. Two microns (2/1000 mm) is all that separates
one sliding component from the other. This gap is so small
that special lubricants must be employed since normal grease
or oils are particulate at 10 to 50 microns (10/1000 to
50/1000 mm). This super lubricant has a particulate size
of less than 2 microns. The level of precision exhibited
here is required for accuracy at the level of the CARL
ZEISS lens and also to prevent chattering and misalignment
of the film plane components.
Another rod composed of metal with a lower fit tolerance
is used to assist the ceramic rail and prevent chattering
and misalignment. The combination of the two rails provides
a railroad track-like surface for the film plane to ride
on. Surrounding these rails is the block called the internal
camera body, composed of the guide rail sockets (one is
ceramic), housing, film gate, and pentaprism assembly.
The second new technology is the Ultra Sonic Motor (USM).
This is the mechanism that drives the ceramic collar and
inner camera body forward and back on the rails. The
virtues of the USM technology are precision control and
extremely quiet operation. The Automatic Back Focusing
system on the AX can move from minimum focusing distance
to infinity or back in less than 450 ms. This is a very
quick indeed. The time required to achieve an intermediate
focusing distance is minute. Additionally, since the film
is moving and not the rotation of the lens, we can focus
long or short focal length lenses over the same time period.
The AX offers auto focusing precision beyond any other
camera in the 35mm arena, without compromising the manual
focusing system one iota.
Bryan Lee
Expat Street Photographer
* The final solution will be revealed on 01/18/06. Until then, you will find out a little more each week from our images.
The latest from the website,,,,,,,, I never thought I would see a German company use this term, The Final Solution.
The latest from the website,,,,,,,, I never thought I would see a German company use this term, The Final Solution.
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waterlenz
Established
Mazurka said:So the decision to adopt the style didn't originate from Mr Kobayashi's direction after all? Would you expect Cosina to do so for their Voigtlander-brand if the German Voigtlander-designed Icarex did not sport this style on their lenses?
BTW, how dare you mention cameras in your own post, let alone 35mm film cameras!
I guess at least 80% of all medium focal-length lenses also "originate from" the Planar, Tessar and Sonnar/Ernostar designs, including those from Zeiss' arch-rival Leica and even today's AF versions. I wonder why we hardly mention that fact?
Someone had to make the descision to emulate these earlier lenses! A good choice of aesthetics. Zeiss must still own the Tessar etc. names. So a Tessar copy is given another name when someone else builds a similar lens. The same for the other CZ names.
Leica had another another approach and have named their lenses according to maximum aperture with the exception of the Elmar name and Telyt for telephotos (this nomenclature does not go ALL the way back to the beginning - inserted before someone gets too picky).
Although the block diagrams may look the same the glass specifications probably vary among the tessr-type lenses. Even within Zeiss the block diagrams of Planars vary substantially - for example there have been two different 80 Planars for the Hasselblad and two different 75 Planars for the Rollei TLR's. The number of elements is the most obvious change in both cases.
Tom
Bryan Lee
Expat Street Photographer
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F
Frank Granovski
Guest
Probably not a neo Nazi but rather someone with a poor command of English. One would hope.