When will Leica introduce the M240's Successor ?

[Tom Niblick]

I thought the reason Leica went with the name"M" was so they could update the camera without adding a number. We are the ones who insist on adding "type 240" to the name.

 

[YYV_146]

My thought is that the train is leaving, or maybe has left, the station. M240 resolution, buffer, ISO and LV just don't belong in the current market. My loyalty at this point is just to my lenses.

I use a Monochrom, but I've checked and its files are not impressively superior in 17x22 prints to A7R files. The Sony sensor's higher resolution just about makes up for eliminating the Bayer array.

I run into quite a few folks - from students to elders - who think of themselves as 'fine art' photographers. Few still regard Leica as a camera to take seriously, even if they could afford one. Even to those devoted to street photography, it's hard to recommend an M240, esp. because of ISOs and banding, or even an M9 (since sensor difficulties). Many are trying Sonys and Fujis.

Leica seems devoted to bringing out Summiluxes in wider focal lengths, at the time when other manufacturers are making reasonably priced f1.8s f2s coupled with sensors that can deal quite well with 'available darkness' problems. Better sensors, not faster lenses, are the way to go?

So IMO the appropriate release data for the next FF Leica doesn't appear in this poll – it was sometime in the past.

Kirk

I would buy a Leica digital body if it was priced within sanity and addresses a few crucial problems with the M240. Not that the M240 isn't a functional camera...I just can't see myself drop that much money into what is doomed to be a special-purpose body.

Even if I have one though, I think it would be a backup to the A7 cameras that I am using. I can afford to abuse, throw around and and put tens of thousands of clicks through an A7, which I can't do on a digital M. But I acknowledge that the RF system has its charms, and are sometimes a superior alternative to the EVF.

As with you, my commitment to Leica is with lenses. I will say, though, that I appreciate the super-fast optics Leica has brought out. The 21mm Summilux delivers performance unparalleled at f1.4, and its "look" can become quite addicting and unique. Having F1.4 opens up more possibilities than just low-light shooting.

 

[Ben Z]

All pure speculation of course, but I think it reasonable that Leica's 1st priority at the moment is a monchrome version of the M240. Even if they have a source for new MM sensors, the cost to replace them gratis is a drain on their profits. And if there isn't a non-corroding cover glass in the offing, they are looking at potentially replacing them multiple times. Much more profitable to adapt the M240 platform to monochrome as they did with the M9. So I'll predict an M240-based Monochrom within the next few months.

As to the successor to the M-P (I have a feeling the M240 is already out of production but I could be wrong), I don't think they will wait for Photokina '16. I expect it will come before the end of this year. How it will differ from the current model is the difficult thing to predict. Probably more megapixels, greater DR, less noise...the usual suspects. Probably larger buffer, some improvement to the video capability. No doubt it will have a better LCD and EVF.

I'm also curious what features of the M-P will be deleted from the new camera so that they can be added back at increased price as a -P model in mid-cycle.

The only thing I can predict with absolute certainty is the new model will be heralded by the usual serial early-adopters as being so far superior to the M240 in so many ways that anyone who doesn't upgrade does not merit being considered a serious and discriminating photographer 😀

 

[FrozenInTime]

Introducing the MM-II on the new M11 ( M.240 replacement ) chassis makes more sense to me - they won't have to deal with color issues 😀 and as volumes would be lower, the production ramp would be more manageable.

The M11 ( M.240 replacement ) with Bayer color filter and video etc. could follow on later once the extra color calibration , firmware bells and whistle etc. are added.

 

[seakayaker1]

A year from now they will announce the replacement and then tease us until the Photokina event when they will announce the release date of the replacement production model.

 

[MCTuomey]

There won't be a successor to the M, at least no meaningful one. Variations on its theme, maybe an incremental sensor improvement here and a feature enhancement there, but no realistic successor as the M240/246 is to the M9/MM/M8. In the same way that Leica's film M's have reached their endpoint, the digital M product curve is matured and done. The future is the Q. Now fixed-lens to test the waters, soon to have an interchangeable mount, and then a line of Q-mount AF/MF lenses.

 

[Dante_Stella]

There won't be a successor to the M, at least no meaningful one. Variations on its theme, maybe an incremental sensor improvement here and a feature enhancement there, but no realistic successor as the M240/246 is to the M9/MM/M8. In the same way that Leica's film M's have reached their endpoint, the digital M product curve is matured and done. The future is the Q. Now fixed-lens to test the waters, soon to have an interchangeable mount, and then a line of Q-mount AF/MF lenses.

I got to try out the Q tonight. Fantastic.

Dante

 

[Michael Markey]

There won't be a successor to the M, at least no meaningful one. Variations on its theme, maybe an incremental sensor improvement here and a feature enhancement there, but no realistic successor as the M240/246 is to the M9/MM/M8. In the same way that Leica's film M's have reached their endpoint, the digital M product curve is matured and done. The future is the Q. Now fixed-lens to test the waters, soon to have an interchangeable mount, and then a line of Q-mount AF/MF lenses.

I think that is a reasonable assumption .
I suspect that they`ll be minded over time to distance themselves from the RF concept and move to the Q.

 

[jaapv]

Educated guess: September/October

 

[mfunnell]

There won't be a successor to the M, at least no meaningful one.

I got to try out the Q tonight. Fantastic.

I suspect that they`ll be minded over time to distance themselves from the RF concept and move to the Q.

All of that may well be true. Time, as they say, will tell. My personal take, for whatever that's worth (which isn't much) is that at least Leica is participating in what I regard as the "throw it against a wall, then see what sticks" approach to finding out what digital cameras will look like once things truly settle down. That's not really a criticism: I doubt there's any other effective way of approaching it.

The Canikon "SLRs R Us" approach seems doomed; the "digital 1950's" approach of Leica's digital M series even more so beyond a niche market (in which I'm a firm, fond, and willing participant). My personal guess (which, at this stage, I figure is no better than anyone else's) is that the Q concept is more representative of the future than any of Leica's lines except the S. I think the T was a great try that missed and might best be left to die in a corner. I could easily see an "interchangable lens Q-type thing" replacing, by gradually overtaking, the M line for Leica - and for them I think that would only be a good thing. It wouldn't work for me: I'll hold on like grim death to the old, but I think the new (if they follow that path) will be better for them and probably in an absolute sense be better.

...Mike

 

[MCTuomey]

All of that may well be true. Time, as they say, will tell. My personal take, for whatever that's worth (which isn't much) is that at least Leica is participating in what I regard as the "throw it against a wall, then see what sticks" approach to finding out what digital cameras will look like once things truly settle down .... My personal guess (which, at this stage, I figure is no better than anyone else's) is that the Q concept is more representative of the future than any of Leica's lines except the S .... I could easily see an "interchangable lens Q-type thing" replacing, by gradually overtaking, the M line for Leica - and for them I think that would only be a good thing.
...Mike

Mike, the Q in concept isn't a toss against the wall. It's been done by Oly, Fuji, and Sony (with Zeiss providing lens support) over the last 2-3 yrs, successfully I'd say, but without much of the soul and elan we attibute to Leica. I believe Leica's been watching and designing, and now building, their offering. By all early accounts, it's one helluva camera, besting the O/F/S competition on a number of fronts, including price 🙁. How long its legs are is anyone's guess. But the path to a Q-system has been mapped, I'm betting, and it will likely look like what Oly, Fuji, and Sony are doing. Only with Leica glass and gestalt, folks.

Think on it a moment. A camera the size of your film M's with comparable haptics, with comparably small and fast lenses, a truly excellent EVF, AF or MF (on demand, you choose), digital imaging for all purposes equivalent or better than that of O/F/S bodies. Whew. Get on it Leica, bravo.

 

[MCTuomey]

I got to try out the Q tonight. Fantastic.

Dante

Serious first-try envy here, Dante.

 

[Dante_Stella]

Serious first-try envy here, Dante.

🙂

If it makes you feel any better, the rep had only gotten it two hours before that. We were at the Peter Turnley event in San Francisco.

But more to the point, mark my words: the days of M development are numbered. It is only a matter of "when" for the interchangeable version.

The Q definitely does not feel like the toy I expected it to be, the VF is phenomenal, the build makes Fuji X cameras seem like plastic toys, and the contrast-detect AF is quite fast. It's also 95% as big as an M but not so heavy (so about the size of an X-Pro1). It is extremely responsive, and within at least the confines of low room light, very sharp and surprisingly noise-free.

The 28mm fl is slightly disappointing, but they handle it decently with the frames lines.

D

 

[mfunnell]

Mike, the Q in concept isn't a toss against the wall. It's been done by Oly, Fuji, and Sony [...]

I think you may have missed my point there. I wasn't saying the Q per se is a "toss against the wall". All I was trying to suggest is that with the Panaleica, S, X, T, M and Q lines, Leica seems to have backed more than one horse in the digital race. And I was trying to say that's a good thing in contrast to the Canons and Nikons who don't seem to see past the mirror-boxes of their SLRs. Wherever digital ends up, I don't think it will look like the film world that was there before digital started: with SLRs, a smattering of rangefinders and a bunch of window-finder P&S cameras. (Hell, that's already dead as far as P&S cameras go - to the point those even exist as a proper category these days.)

Digital may have started out with cameras that looked like film cameras, only with new sensor technology. I profoundly doubt it
will end up that way, once it matures. Leica seems to be acting like a company trying to figure out what will work in that world while the Canikons seem to have their heads firmly in the sand, or somewhere less pleasant, not seeing that digital versions of film SLRs aren't the future (though I've no doubt DSLRs will live a good long time - as niche products for certain uses or users).

...Mike

 

[Godfrey]

When is unimportant to me. I'm quite happy with the M-P, will be when my MM246 arrives too. They are more than just 'good enough' ... good enough that I've sold most of my other digital cameras. M, MM, X, and Oly E-M1 does it for me.

What Leica does beyond them is a tantalizing realm of possibilities. I look forward to being pleasantly surprised.

G

 

[Godfrey]

..
Even if I have one though, I think it would be a backup to the A7 cameras that I am using. I can afford to abuse, throw around and and put tens of thousands of clicks through an A7, which I can't do on a digital M. ...

It went exactly the opposite for me. Once I had the M-P, I sold my A7. Never really liked the A7, just tolerated it. Diff'rent strokes.

Whatever works for you is all that matters.

G

 

[MCTuomey]

🙂

If it makes you feel any better, the rep had only gotten it two hours before that. We were at the Peter Turnley event in San Francisco.

But more to the point, mark my words: the days of M development are numbered. It is only a matter of "when" for the interchangeable version.

The Q definitely does not feel like the toy I expected it to be, the VF is phenomenal, the build makes Fuji X cameras seem like plastic toys, and the contrast-detect AF is quite fast. It's also 95% as big as an M but not so heavy (so about the size of an X-Pro1). It is extremely responsive, and within at least the confines of low room light, very sharp and surprisingly noise-free.

The 28mm fl is slightly disappointing, but they handle it decently with the frames lines.

D

Thank you Dante. Was thinking otherwise of an assault on Hamtramck to see it. Agree on your assessment and await the interchangeable mount model, and lenses to follow, with much excitement.

 

[Duane Pandorf]

First off I voted saying the next iteration of the M camera will be announced 4th Quarter of this year 2015. That will mark the third year since that original M240 was announced.

The camera will be available at time of announcement unlike the issues Leica had 3 years ago.

The Leica Q appears to be a very nice camera that portends to what we may see in an updated M.

I have read that the new Q's CMOS sensor is not designed by either CMOSIS nor Sony. Also I believe with the release of the T and now the Q, Leica realizes that they needed to change how the user interacts with the camera via touch screen and wifi to make it "easier" or more "convenient" to move images from the camera to a mobile device. This a major reason smart camera phones have killed the P&S camera market.

I can see Leica adding these features to the next M. An even more extraordinary change will be this camera's EVF system replacing the M's rangefinder with a combo OVF/EVF.

Leica is not going to quit making a camera that uses all of those great manual lenses they have.

However, I could see a Q with a 50 lens added to the line for those that would be happy with the fixed lens system.

 

[jaapv]

And to add to our Head Bartender's confusion: There is one sure prediction to be made: The successor to the Leica M will be named: Leica M... 😀

 

[raid]

It will be not easy to tell current owners of M240 cameras that they need to dump them for a better one.