wide-angle in LSM

[yarinkel]

Hi all, I posted not so long ago in the optics forum about a 75mm LSM.

Now it's time to complement the wide-end of my Bessa R.

I already have an Ultron 35mm, but I'd like to have something
wider to shoot buildings, street scenes, bars interiors, and eventually
landscapes.

I currently consider the 21/4 Color-Skopar and the 25/4 Snapshot-Skopar.
they both seem to be reasonably sharp, priced, and sized.

I'll tend more towards the 25mm as the 21mm gets a bit specialized. But
it is not a coupled lens. Is this, in practical situations, a handicap ?

I like to focus on close objects that lead the eye in the scene when
shooting wide angle, but doing so by guessing the distance seems
a bit adventurous to me.
Do you have had a significant amount of out-of-focus pictures by guessing
the distance, shooting wide-open? Or is the depth of field already
enough at 25mm?

Also, for you who have both lenses, how do they compare? Handling,
sharpness, contrast...

Thank you for you time

 

[Doug]

Hi --The closer things are, the easier it is to guestimate the distance. 🙂 But close up, wide open even at f/4, DoF is limited enough that you need to be careful. In the old days, some would carry a string with knots at known intervals. The 25 Skopar helps with click stops at strategic distance settings. When you then add in an active subject, there are skills to be developed, and preplanning the be thought-out. The lens is simply super.

I was using my 25 Skopar on a Minolta CLE for interior candid "environmental" portraits. The AE feature was useful because I wanted simplify the exposure process as I moved about into different light. I was "winging it" without an external viewfinder, relying on the whole window outside the 28mm framelines. F/4 was a bit of a problem, requiring ISO 800 or 1600 speed film, which I felt was compromizing quality in the 35mm size. As it happens, though, I later found that Fuji NPZ800 is actually amazingly sharp and low in grain, and just barely fast enough.

Ok, so I was compromizing on framing, giving up parallax compensation which at short distances tends to lop off body parts if you're not careful, and on the edge with light/lens speed/film speed. So I got a 28mm Skopar to regain the better framing and parallax, and RF coupling, and that was fine but I only progressed from f/4 to f/3.5. Better, of course, but an f/2 28mm Summicron would have been ideal!

Well, that all involved indoor closeups wide open... I think the 25 is a great little lens but easier to use in better light at longer distances. A lot of this is true of the 21mm f/4 as well, but focusing is even less critical than with the 25... the RF coupling is hardly necessary there I think. Another great lens, but I don't have one. I decided on greater speed and went with the Zeiss Biogon 21mm f/2.8 for Contax G, and even adding in the cost of a used G1 body it was still a bargain for a terrific lens. There's again the external viewfinder though, with parallax issues.

The 25 makes a good companion for a 35mm lens, as they're sufficiently different in angle of view to make them useful in different circumstances. I found the 25 ideal for touristing around southern Spain, using it more than the 15 and 40mm lenses I also had along. If you can manage f/5.6 or f/8, then it'll be easy, and guessing distances with the convenience of the click-stops and the DoF scale should be fine.

 

[yarinkel]

Thanks Doug.

I just visited my local second hand shop, and they have a Avenon (Kobalux)
21mm/2.8 on sale. It is in excellent condition but it's a big lens, and the
external viewfinder is huge!

Does anyone knows how this lens compares with the CV 21/4? I'm not
sure if the extra weigth and price make the 1 stop difference worth.

 

[Goodyear]

Of the three you've mentioned, I have only used the CV 21/4.

But I must say I love it very much. My usual kit is 21, 35, 75.

 

[daveozzz]

I use the 25/4 a lot and think it's a great wee lens. Focusing is a piece of cake and I've yet to miss with it (although I don't do much ambitious close focus work). The speed can be a bit of an annoyance at times hand held but I mostly use it on a tripod at f22 so doesn't make any odds.

 

[GeneW]

I had a CV21 and sold it, replacing it later with a CV25. The 21 was simply too wide for my taste. It's a fine lens, but not the one for me. The 25 is just right for wider-than-35 for me. It's a mystery why this fine lens wasn't designed to be RF coupled (does anyone know why?) but, as has been said, it's easy to use in most circumstances.

It seems to me that CV mixed up the design of these two. The CV25 should have been RF coupled. The CV21 doesn't matter as much and could have been uncoupled.

Gene

 

[raid]

I love my 25/4 lens. It is small and light, and it offers very good sharpness and reasonal price. I use it extensively along with a 35mm and a 50/2 and a 85mm/1.9 when I travel. Tonight, I was a Greek festival, and I took photos with this lens of people dancing, at available light with XP2 Super film. I may add one day a 15mm lens or A 21MM lens, but for now I am happy with my 25mm lens. I hardly ever use my Rokkor 28mm/2.8. No clue why not. It's also a neat little lens.

 

[Doug]

It seems to me that CV mixed up the design of these two. The CV25 should have been RF coupled. The CV21 doesn't matter as much and could have been uncoupled.

Hi Gene -- As I hear it, the 25 Skopar was the first lens produced when Cosina ventured into this project, now very successful. And the first Cosina-made Voigtlander branded body was the Bessa-L, which had no RF for the lens to couple to anyway.

The body was derived from the OEM line of low-end SLRs Cosina had been making for several major brands, just with the prism/mirror viewing system removed and a LTM 39mm lens mount slapped on. Both were actually sold under the Cosina brand in some parts of the world. And it was anybody's guess at that point whether this odd-duckling body/lens combination would sell. The Bessa-R followed, basically a Bessa-L with a rangefinder added on top, and subsequent lenses were RF-coupled. Not sure if the uncoupled 15mm came before the Bessa-R too, but it's likely.

 

[djon]

There are some CV 25 shots in my Gallery. Those shots are minilab scans but I think they demonstrate one kind of potential for that lens. I need to rescan them myself.

The click stop focus lever is a great idea...I wish all my lenses had it, even though the rest do focus.

My main complaint about this lens is the finder (plastic foot, inaccurate framing).