snausages
Well-known
I dropped off my 6x9 ZI Nettar 515/2 (with 105mm 3.5 Nettar lens) at Nippon Clinic and they've quoted me $130 for an overhaul of the camera.
I paid $40 for the camera, but have never shot with it because the shutter was sticky.
So the question is...is it worth putting this money into this camera, or should I hold out for a ZI 6x9 with a better lens (Novar, Tessar?), and spend the $130 on eventually fixing up that camera?
I worry that $170 (130 + 40) is too much for a Nettar, but then again, I like the results from my ZI 6x6 Xenar and if it's not a discernible step down from that, then I could live with it.
Thanks for any thoughts guys!
I paid $40 for the camera, but have never shot with it because the shutter was sticky.
So the question is...is it worth putting this money into this camera, or should I hold out for a ZI 6x9 with a better lens (Novar, Tessar?), and spend the $130 on eventually fixing up that camera?
I worry that $170 (130 + 40) is too much for a Nettar, but then again, I like the results from my ZI 6x6 Xenar and if it's not a discernible step down from that, then I could live with it.
Thanks for any thoughts guys!
bmattock
Veteran
For me, it would be too much for a Nettar. There are plenty of good examples out there for less. However, that's just me. I paid double that to have a Canon FX overhauled that is orth maybe $75 tops on today's market. But I wanted to do it, so I did it. If you want to do it, do it. I wouldn't, but that's just me.
dazedgonebye
Veteran
As Bill says...this is about what you want.
It's tough to justify spending anything on repairs on many old cameras. You'll almost certainly never get the money back if you sell the camera.
On the other hand, if you'll end up with a camera you really like that'll give you many years of service, then it may be worth it to you.
It's tough to justify spending anything on repairs on many old cameras. You'll almost certainly never get the money back if you sell the camera.
On the other hand, if you'll end up with a camera you really like that'll give you many years of service, then it may be worth it to you.
snausages
Well-known
Yeah, I realize the question is frustrating in the sense that it really depends on what the camera is worth personally to the person paying for the repair. The problem is, I've never shot with it and can find very few posted examples of images taken with this type of lens, so I have no reference point for my affinity for this camera and thus it just feels like a (expensive) roll of the dice.
I guess what I'm really asking is...has anyone shot with or seen shots from a Nettar 105mm 3.5 and would they feel this lens justifies the money/effort to fix the camera?
I guess what I'm really asking is...has anyone shot with or seen shots from a Nettar 105mm 3.5 and would they feel this lens justifies the money/effort to fix the camera?
bmattock
Veteran
I have, and it is nice. All medium format cameras produce nice images, more or less - in comparison to 35mm. The Nettar was the bottom rung of Zeiss' folding cameras at the time, I believe.
If you really are unsure, I'd try snagging a couple more at auction. I recall having a drawer full of them at one time, bought at $5 and $10 each on eBay (gave them away to captainslack, mostly, after using them awhile). You might get lucky and get a nice one that does not require a CLA.
oftheherd
Veteran
I also have the 515/2, but with a Novar lens. It takes great photos. I am not sure it is worth that much to fix. As others have said, I would consider either trying to get another, or fixing it myself.
snausages
Well-known
Thanks for your input, guys.
I think I lean toward skipping the CLA on this. I already have other pleasing MF gear, so I'm in no rush to invest more in a lens I might not love.
As for fixing it myself I would have no idea where to start!
I think I lean toward skipping the CLA on this. I already have other pleasing MF gear, so I'm in no rush to invest more in a lens I might not love.
As for fixing it myself I would have no idea where to start!
FallisPhoto
Veteran
If you're just talking about a CLA of the shutter and a general external cleaning up and polishing, $130 is way too much. I'd do it for $80.
snausages
Well-known
Fallis, thank you for the input. Nippon mentioned taking apart and cleaning the lens as well. Interestingly, without seeing the camera, Essex in NJ said $130 as well. I guess that's the going NYC rate for polishing up a deadbeat folder...
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Uh, this is a plain old three-element Novar lens we are talking about isn't it? Nothing wrong with it other than dirt? Cleaning the lenses would be part of any reputable repairman's CLA. I still think $130 is way too much and I would do it for $80. All modesty aside, I'm good at it too. Nettars are just not that hard to work on, unless they need new bellows. That might bring it up to $130.
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ZeissFan
Veteran
Don't base the cost of an overhaul on the value of a camera.
The cost of an overhaul should reflect the time and complexity of the service required. The price should be the same for an Ikonta or a Nagel Vollenda 620, for example, because the work involved is nearly identical.
However, some repair people will charge more to overhaul an expensive camera, not because the work is more involved but because of the ability of people to pay.
This is always the issue when buying older cameras, especially the lower end models. Often the repair bill will be more than the value of the camera.
And that's why many of us have learned to service our own cameras. This makes a great deal of sense if you end up buying a lot of cameras.
And I think the price is too high.
The cost of an overhaul should reflect the time and complexity of the service required. The price should be the same for an Ikonta or a Nagel Vollenda 620, for example, because the work involved is nearly identical.
However, some repair people will charge more to overhaul an expensive camera, not because the work is more involved but because of the ability of people to pay.
This is always the issue when buying older cameras, especially the lower end models. Often the repair bill will be more than the value of the camera.
And that's why many of us have learned to service our own cameras. This makes a great deal of sense if you end up buying a lot of cameras.
And I think the price is too high.
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snausages
Well-known
Funny ending to this story:
When I went to Nippon to pick up my camera, I had decided to not have it repaired as $130 seemed too much to invest in a Nettar (especially after all of the excellent guidance I received here). I would just pick it up and play around with it, as is. But, the repairman at Nippon had, as he was inspecting the camera, taken it upon himself to CLA the camera, I believe as an educational exercise for himself. And so we agreed on a price of $50 for the repair.
Like with my other Ikonta folder, the lens is clearly highly capable - the limitations are just my clumsiness with its quirks (left hand release is hard to get used to, and, despite the repair, i think focus measurements are still a bit off).
I put a test roll through the Nettar and shot my first ever 6x9 frames...
When I went to Nippon to pick up my camera, I had decided to not have it repaired as $130 seemed too much to invest in a Nettar (especially after all of the excellent guidance I received here). I would just pick it up and play around with it, as is. But, the repairman at Nippon had, as he was inspecting the camera, taken it upon himself to CLA the camera, I believe as an educational exercise for himself. And so we agreed on a price of $50 for the repair.
Like with my other Ikonta folder, the lens is clearly highly capable - the limitations are just my clumsiness with its quirks (left hand release is hard to get used to, and, despite the repair, i think focus measurements are still a bit off).
I put a test roll through the Nettar and shot my first ever 6x9 frames...
FallisPhoto
Veteran
I don't do that. I have a standard charge of $80 per folder, for a basic CLA that includes the lenses, the shutter, and the outside of the camera (polishing away rust and oxidation, cleaning the crud out of the leather/leatherette and such). This is in line with what Essex used to charge, which I think is fair. Their prices have gone up since then though and mine have not.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Nettars are compact and light given the film area, and (through lack of complicated features) reliable. But $130 might buy you a Super Ikonta in need of a CLA, or a Meß Ikonta including CLA. A $130 total for the bottom end of Zeiss folders seems rather excessive, unless you have fallen in love with that particular camera.
Sevo
Sevo
ZeissFan
Veteran
You don't do what? I'm not sure of what you mean here.
ZeissFan
Veteran
Anyway, my point is that the amount of time required to clean a Nettar with a Novar lens and Pronto shutter is roughly the same as the amount of time to clean an Ikonta (no rangefinder) with a Tessar and Compur shutter.
And time = money. It's true.
And even if the Nettar costs $35 while the Ikonta costs $75, the cost of servicing both is about the same, but the bill will seem excessive for one camera and reasonable for the other. And that's because some camera buyers incorrectly believe that the cost of the camera should be reflected in the cost of service.
After a while, a competent repair person will know how much time is involved and charge accordingly on a per-hour basis. Some repairers charge significantly more than others.
And time = money. It's true.
And even if the Nettar costs $35 while the Ikonta costs $75, the cost of servicing both is about the same, but the bill will seem excessive for one camera and reasonable for the other. And that's because some camera buyers incorrectly believe that the cost of the camera should be reflected in the cost of service.
After a while, a competent repair person will know how much time is involved and charge accordingly on a per-hour basis. Some repairers charge significantly more than others.
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snausages
Well-known
I think we're all sort of saying the same thing here.
The worth of a camera should not affect the cost to repair it.
There should be no discrepancy in the fee to CLA a Tessar, Novar, or Nettar lens.
Mr. Fallis agrees with this and was just offering to provide his services for less than I was quoted from the NY vendor.
And because the $130 I was quoted in NY, or even the $80 from Mr. Fallis, would have been more wisely invested in a lens better than the Nettar, I opted not to have the CLA done.
But then it was done. Without my request (see my post above for the story). And so I agreed to pay $50 for it.
And now I have a functioning, very clean 6x9 Nettar and it's capable of making lovely images on large negatives, all for under $100.
The worth of a camera should not affect the cost to repair it.
There should be no discrepancy in the fee to CLA a Tessar, Novar, or Nettar lens.
Mr. Fallis agrees with this and was just offering to provide his services for less than I was quoted from the NY vendor.
And because the $130 I was quoted in NY, or even the $80 from Mr. Fallis, would have been more wisely invested in a lens better than the Nettar, I opted not to have the CLA done.
But then it was done. Without my request (see my post above for the story). And so I agreed to pay $50 for it.
And now I have a functioning, very clean 6x9 Nettar and it's capable of making lovely images on large negatives, all for under $100.
bucks11
Established
I'd say $50 is a decent bargaining point for the CLA.
I've never shot w/ 6x9, but I really like the images you produced.
I've never shot w/ 6x9, but I really like the images you produced.
Windscale
Well-known
$50 was a very reasonable price. As long as the bellows are OK, cleaning the shutter, the lens and readjusting focus is really not too difficult. Even Fallis's $80 is not unreasonable. But for $130+40, I would probably look for something with a slightly better lens. I had a Nettar somewhile ago and I think it is good for landscape and B&W, showing good shadow details and sufficiently sharp at the corners once stopped down to f11 or thereabout.
If you think your focus is a bit out, you can easily adjust it by the groundglass/loupe method. With good daylight it can be done in less than a minute.
If you think your focus is a bit out, you can easily adjust it by the groundglass/loupe method. With good daylight it can be done in less than a minute.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Charge according to what a camera costs.