X100 - Back to the Future

[coelacanth]

Sug
It's my understanding that all P&S cams small sensor cams have digital distortion correction. The tiny lenses would otherwise distort quite wildly.

I was thinking those P&S with jpeg only would. But most of RAW capable P&S like LX3/5 or Canon G series are also doing that before RAW writing? I remember Canon S90 was criticized for very pronouncing barrel distortion when recorded without correction.

 

[Frankie]

OVF:
• live histogram
• live focus scale with DOF range at current aperture indicated
......

The histogram in the OVF was immediately noticed but could not explain...unless the shutter is always open [even in OVF mode] and close then open again for exposure.

If so, live-view and live histogram will of course be possible, so will various focusing-aids [yet announced]; and actual focal distance [auto- or manually acquired] and LUT DoF range for aperture selected.

Can't confirm as yet.

 

[Frankie]

I refer strictly to barrel or mustache distortion obviously not from perspective.

I have seen that feature even in zoom digicams...but not reported in X100 as yet.

 

[f16sunshine]

I was thinking those P&S with jpeg only would. But most of RAW capable P&S like LX3/5 or Canon G series are also doing that before RAW writing? I remember Canon S90 was criticized for very pronouncing barrel distortion when recorded without correction.

Yeah I'm curious as well. Maybe someone will have the answer. My LX3 was not perfect but fine shooting both Raw or jpeg

 

[coelacanth]

Yeah I'm curious as well. Maybe someone will have the answer. My LX3 was not perfect but fine shooting both Raw or jpeg

Indeed curious. It would be great if X100 can achieve next-to-non-existant distortion by any/all of fixed focal length, shorter flange back lens design, Biogon-like lens formula and digital correction before RAW writing without sacrificing the picture quality.

 

[Frankie]

OVF:
• In-body ND filter for full aperture/moderate shutter speeds in bright scenes.

2-stops ND filter [effect] can be achieved by reducing the sensor sensitivity. I don't believe actual ND filters are necessarily used.

 

[semilog]

The histogram in the OVF was immediately noticed but could not explain...unless the shutter is always open [even in OVF mode] and close then open again for exposure.

If so, live-view and live histogram will of course be possible, so will various focusing-aids [yet announced]; and actual focal distance [auto- or manually acquired] and LUT DoF range for aperture selected.

Can't confirm as yet.

We have to assume that an open-shutter live view-like mode is the default for OVF mode, if CDAF (or on-chip PDAF) is the focusing modality.

 

[coelacanth]

2-stops ND filter [effect] can be achieved by reducing the sensor sensitivity. I don't believe actual ND filters are necessarily used.

I think the idea is that the actual ND filter would contribute to better IQ compared to ISO reduction bellow its base sensitivity.

 

[PKR]

I'm trying to figure out why a shutter is necessary in some of these cameras. A frame grab requires a large buffer and a delay line. maybe it's the size of the delay line that makes this impractical. You would think that a digital model of an analog delay line would be common. I'll do a little reading. With a frame grab, the camera would be quiet. I've read about the required shutter sound in some camera phones..

 

[Frankie]

I'm trying to figure out why a shutter is necessary in some of these cameras. A frame grab requires a large buffer and a delay line. maybe it's the size of the delay line that makes this impractical. You would think that a digital model of an analog delay line would be common. I'll do a little reading. With a frame grab, the camera would be quiet. I've read about the required shutter sound in some camera phones..

Look into a system called Leica ADS-80 [by Leica Geosystem at Heerbrugg, not Solms and company owned by different people]. There is about 10 years of chatter regarding this technology. Most of the debates started in 2003.

The ADS system uses multiple sets of 12,000 pixel lines to acquire panchromatic and Ir/R/G/B fore/nadir/aft looking bands. It acquires a picture by continuously scanning the ground and reassembling the datasets via post-processing.

It has no shutter and no moving parts...Cost $2 million++.

 

[PKR]

Look into a system called Leica ADS-80 [by Leica Geosystem at Heerbrugg, not Solms and company owned by different people]. There is about 10 years of chatter regarding this technology. Most of the debates started in 2003.

The ADS system uses multiple sets of 12,000 pixel lines to acquire panchromatic and Ir/R/G/B fore/nadir/aft looking bands. It acquires a picture by continuously scanning the ground and reassembling the datasets via post-processing.

It has no shutter and no moving parts...Cost $2 million++.

I found a paper on the system. It looks like it’s used for cartography and aerial photography; likely a product for the NRO and their sisters in various countries.

I guess if there was a practical (cost effective) work-around of the shutter, I think it would be in our cameras.

 

[semilog]

2-stops ND filter [effect] can be achieved by reducing the sensor sensitivity. I don't believe actual ND filters are necessarily used.

Wrong (and here I thought you'd committed all published X-100 specs to memory! 😛).

A 3-stop ND filter is in the Fuji specifications. See here under "lens." Here is the relevant text from the Fuji press release:

• Featuring a built-in ND filter (equivalent f-stop reduction of 3), the lens can enhance depth-of-field even in bright shooting conditions by enabling the aperture to be kept wide open. Shutter speed can also be reduced to capture waterfalls, or any shot where intentional blur is required.

For at least some sensor designs, de-tuning sensor sensitivity can't be done except at the expense of DR. This is why many pro-level video cameras (e.g. the new micro 4/3 camera from Panasonic) contain built-in ND filters.

 

[jsrockit]

I think that's a great option, the ND filter... proves Fuji really is thinking when making this camera.

 

[Frankie]

Wrong (and here I thought you'd committed all published X-100 specs to memory! 😛).

I didn't say perfect memory...😉

See Post 1 erratum.

 

[Frankie]

I found a paper on the system. It looks like it’s used for cartography and aerial photography; likely a product for the NRO and their sisters in various countries.

I guess if there was a practical (cost effective) work-around of the shutter, I think it would be in our cameras.

One of my sectors of experiences is imaging with this type of camera, and their predecessor 23 x 23cm film camera (Leica RC-8, 10, 20, 30, Zeiss RMK-A, Jena LMK...).

For the fun of it, see also Z(I Imaging DMC and RMK-DX, and Vexcel Ultracam models.

 

[semilog]

The following is true for any 35mm equivalent FOV, but it may be useful to point out that cropping to square gives almost exactly the same FOV as an 80mm lens on a 6x6 camera. For a 12 megapixel sensor this will yield an 8 megapixel crop with "normal" perspective that uses solely the sweet spot of the lens.

Fuji have not confirmed this next point, but one of my fondest hopes for this camera is that it will be possible to project square format frame lines onto the OVF and to directly save square format JPEGs.

 

[Frankie]

Another important aspect in the X100 is a "lens" adapter ring and a nice OVF.

See: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1426447&postcount=1151 by tom.w.bn

"In addition to what I wrote before (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...postcount=1078) there was another aspect the nice Fuji representative told me. The lens bayonet is designed to add converters in front of the lens.

The view through the optical viewfinder is absolutely nice. Not that flicker stuff when looking through an EVF. A clear view with all the other information nicely displayed. Just like some head up display in certain concept cars."
__________________

 

[Doug]

The histogram in the OVF was immediately noticed but could not explain...unless the shutter is always open [even in OVF mode] and close then open again for exposure.

If so, live-view and live histogram will of course be possible, so will various focusing-aids [yet announced]; and actual focal distance [auto- or manually acquired] and LUT DoF range for aperture selected.

Can't confirm as yet.

Mystery shutter? If anyone's revealed info about the X100 shutter, I haven't seen it... A focal-plane shutter would be an unusual choice for a fixed-lens camera, but that would allow the 1/4000 sec on the shutter speed dial. I would more expect a leaf shutter in this camera, but would 1/4000 be possible.... Or, could it be an electronic shutter? I don't see the shutter specified in the Fuji info.

 

[MRohlfing]

Mystery shutter? ... I would more expect a leaf shutter in this camera, but would 1/4000 be possible....

It is a very fast shutter apparently. Even too fast for 1/2 and 1 second 😀 - or why are they missing on the shutter speed dial?

 

[semilog]

WRT the shutter, I just want to know what the sync speed is, and whether I can use 2nd curtain flash.